33 replies to this topic

[soccermage]

Hi guys. What's life like as a technically competent programmer in your country?

Over here, programmer is the lowest life form. Everyone despises the programmer, from the sales to the users. The consultants are people who normally are poor in actual programming, but good at talking and sales, and they rose up to be a consultant.

Here, a programmer works from 8:30am to 9pm everyday rushing projects. Pay increments are low, and can expected to be laid off by 35 yrs old, once u are considered technologically backward.

How's life of a programmer in your country?


[note=m^e]Good topic Am pinning it. I can see the beginning of a nice discussion. [/note]

Edited by microscopic^earthling, 13 November 2005 - 03:25 AM.

[abhiram]

Well... how about telling us what country you are from?

[hatim]

Well in Pakistan programmers arent that bad ...but i guess its just outsourcing ...western people coming in getting their projects done preety cheap. In the end big money is in busniess and consulatancy for technically sound people....so start learning stuff like project management ..and get good atr speaking and marketing...if u deal with computers , hardware its less money ..if u deal with people and money directly ..it more money

[Quatrux]

Well here in Lithuania, I don't know any serious programmers or a company which develops a lot, but there is and the money is not so bad, eventually the best programmers find their future in foreign countries by leaving Lithuania, because they pay more money there, joining projects, also there are a lot of programmers which work for their hobby or free time by having other paid job, etc. Nothing special.

[warbird]

In Holland I think programmer is quite a good job. A big part of my family is doing something with computers and there are also some programmers amongst them. They got all paid very well, and so are the other programmers here I think. That's why I want to become a programmer as well

-=jeroen=-

[Killer008r]

The U.S., I would say is built by programmers. Although alot of them are looked at as bad. I am one of the people that most Americans would say is a bad kind of programmer, since I design computer games that their children would want them to buy for presents. And then become 'morraly corrupt' after playing them. Because you and I know people's attitudes are decided by what games they play.

[PureHeart]

Here, in Vietnam. Programmers earn lots of money. They love their work. Most programmers were born in high-income family. Many people study Information Technology but few have a job.

Programmer seems to be the best job here, high creative, high income....

[cubensis]

here in bogotá is an excelent job, actually working at my college 4 hours each day,and my salary is pretty good compared with the normal people,i earn 2x the salary and work the half, so this profession is really good, and if this is the beginning i can't imagine what the future holds for me,i hope to travel all the world arround while coding and rocking!

[xboxrulz]

Here in Toronto, Canada, computer programming is just another job, like a doctor, lawyer, whatever. It's just another way to make money. I won't say that it's so good that it's like the CSA (Canadian Space Agency) or something.

xboxrulz

[CaptainRon]

Well in India, its a dream career!
two things are at an all time high, Call centres and Software Engineers. Salary hikes are the highest in Asia as per Forbes, so no doubt, being a Software engineer makes your family proud of you.

And hell! you guys wont believe, when I took Computer Science as my stream in engineering in 2002, each and every damn person went about saying... "There is no scope kid.. y did u take this field?" be it the librarian or a passenger in a flight.

And four years down the line when i am selected in Wipro, i want them to ask me the same question :-)

[Unitechy]

Yeah thats true now in India a programmes is on demand..
Salaries are just wow wow..

[Chesso]

I don't know about here in Australia, i'm just a hobbiest software developer and web developer in general. I know a few friends that have been hired as web designers that make some decent money but that's about it.

I haven't seen any jobs for this field..... none at all to be honest. But I don't have $1000 to take courses for certificates that are probably outdated.

My other half right now is doing an IT course, and one of the assigments asks for an explanation on settings up and installing an Apple Printer that was disconinuted two years after it's first release in 1986 and was primarliy for businesses only at a cost of arounf $1000.

Otherwise I have no idea what's it like here in Australia, but I don't know a single person in this country in my entire life that makes software..... perhaps someone else from Australia knows more about this?

[Fixxxer]

Here in Bosnia and Hercegovina programmer job is very hard to find, mostly becouse of corupction and stuff like that. Second its very hard to find good programmer. But programmers that really doing good job get paid more or less 3X compared with ordinaly people. Outsorcing is not in trend right now.

[mastercomputers]

Being neighbours with Australia I know quite a bit about their Programmers, since their companies like to approach New Zealand too.

The pay is probably acceptable if you live here but it does depend on the company that hires you, I feel Australia/New Zealand have quite good living conditions, and sometimes this is what provides better opportunity for others considering migrating than the pay, so if programming isn't paying well or living conditions isn't that good, why not consider moving, programming here is always in demand also specific areas of project management as well as consultancy.

There's strong demands for different languages, though .NET seems to be capturing a lot of people's eyes, I haven't seen too much development made in Australia/New Zealand for this, so I'm thinking it's not as successful as people are expecting it to be or their software just isn't being recognised largely enough, though if it does get recognised, usually a company from overseas will buy it out.

The lead developer for Firefox, is a New Zealander, who use to live out west from where I am, before he was offered the opportunity to work in the U.S., which he now lives/works over there. There's also software that was developed here which got bought out by bigger companies, I know Ghost (Symantec) was developed here before being bought out.

It's always tough finding good programmers, although combining good programmers with clued up people still can benefit in many situations. That's why I believe collaboration is a good thing.

Outsourcing isn't a trend here, though you'll usually be the one being made to do projects for other countries, UK, Australia, and the US are just a few that I know we program for.

Cheers,

MC

[Arbitrary]

Well, I live in the U.S., but since I'm not old enough to be getting a job, I'll just talk about my dad. It's Silicon Valley here...where all the housing and living prices are rocketing through the roof ($900,000 for an indecent 2 bedroom house? What in the world?!), so most programmers don't make enough money to actually buy a house. We rent. It usually takes two people in a household both working high-profile jobs to buy a house. Obviously the pay he gets would be more than sufficient if we had lived elsewhere, like maybe in Arizona.

As for getting hired, he's been offered a number of jobs. People contact him a lot to ask him for if he wants this job or that job. So, I suppose the job crisis isn't as bad now as it was before. (I mean, back in year 2000 the economy was down in the dumps and most programmers were afraid of being fired, especially if they didn't contribute enough to the company) Sill, despite the current improvements of the economy, there is plenty of competition, so if you're in a managerial position with no real connection to the work, you could get fired easily.

I know a couple of people who work at Google too. But they don't say it's the best thing in the world like all that hype does. It's just like any other corporation--there's plenty of work to be done, and working over normal hours isn't abnormal. I don't know about pay...as that isn't discussed much. I'm sure much of the hype comes from the obvious high-profile workers there, who are bound to earn (and rest) more than average.

On the other hand, I suppose if we lived elsewhere in the country with similar incomes, we would be thriving.

Edited by Arbitrary, 19 July 2006 - 12:42 AM.

[SP Rao]

I have some different comments to make about India. I do agree compared to a lot of other professionals here, the pay is good for a programmer. But, like others were mentioning, managers, consultants and sales people earn more than a programmer within the software industry.

Now, what would be a great salary per month for a programmer? If he gets 400$/month it's considered extremely good salary here!!! I after two years of working in Asia's largest software company TCS, get a disgusting salary of 630$ a month! How many people would call that great? But, considering the cost of living here, it is a great income. Also owing to the fact that, getting a software job now is almost as simple as anything you can get here(assuming you have BE degree in IT), this route of career looks perfect for many. Most of them live an a dream world. Good jobs are offered by MNCs based outside India. Indian companies are mainly intio software consultancy which simply means "body shopping". Some other clients "hire" us. Our company does projects for clients majorly based out of USA and Europe... (almost all fortune 500 companies are in one way or the other rely on Indian Consultancy firms like TCS, Infosys, Wipro, Satyam, Patni etc... for software development and maintainance.).

Entry level salary for a programmer in all the above mentioned Indian companies vary between 250$ to 400$. The hikes are great. The best in Asia in any industry. But then again, the hikes for programmers are much lower compared to the managers. Basically if you are on the managarial side, you hikes are more; salary is way too high compared to that of a programmer.

Basically within the industry of software, programmer has the lowest pay; managers and consultants the maximum.

But, only good part abou these companies are, you get to go "onsite". Everyone wants to join these companies because he gets to go "onsite". (Onsite means working in the client's office.) Since majority of our clients are from USA and Europe, we get to visit these contries and work there. And while working there, we'll be getting very good allowances there... (Avg after paying taxes wages varying from 2000$-3500$ for engineers with <5 years of exp in USA, In Europe... around 1800 pound sterling... ).

Now, if you don't get onsite, even the best of the pays for 5-8 years experienced programmers here are in the range 1000$-1500$. People here in India might argue that it's an extremely high salary. But the standard of living here is not even comparable with Developed countries. Roads are pathetic, no infrastructure and absolutely no value for a productive man's time. With all these difficulties, there is extreme work pressure on programmers. Too much.

But , compared to other fields here we get far better pay as programmer. But then again, in a country where a Toyota Corolla costs around $28000!!! (I guess it costs 13,000$ in the USA) can't really say that we can afford luxuries so easily.... even if we have one among the higher paid jobs.

All in all it's a decent enough profession here.

Edited by SP Rao, 01 September 2006 - 05:23 AM.

[Vyoma]

@SP
Tch. Tch. I had resisted putting anything here for quite long - as long as I had been to AstaHost. I now feel that the lazyness was worth it cause you put all that I wanted to say here in clear terms - I could not have done it better.

Ofcourse, I will give the credit shamelessly to myself 'cause I did call you here and recomend this forum.

I would second what you are saying. Managers and other higher tier personel in a company get more than - way more than - what a programmer gets in the same industry in India. I cannot say for other industry and I cannot say if it is fair when compared to other countries. I think to blame any particular industry for paying less when compared to same in another country is a bit absurd because they would definetly be different, and these things would be different in different countries. Else, if all the features were economically flat, I doubt there would be any trade between two countries. I am not saying that would be fair or this would be - I am just saying that we are pointing fingers in a wrong direction if we think in that terms.

But yes, manager and higer tier do get paid way more (off the scale) when compared to programmers. I mean, you should look at even the entry level package given to a student out of a techinal college and a B-School. The graduate of a B-School gets a bloated one in India - I am not sure of other countries - but I am not sure if I am biased in saying that I value the technical knowledge that actually creates something more than another set of skill that basically deals with manipulating other people.

@Others
Sorry about inviting him over here. He is a bit of rambler sometimes (like me) but quite as much talented as me. Not better than me ofcourse.

Edited by Vyoma, 01 September 2006 - 02:49 PM.

[Chesso]

Well naturaly in any country and most likely any industry, a manager will have a higher wage than the workers underneath him in terms of responsiblity and what not.

It's always been this way as far as I know *shrugs*.

[Vyoma]

Of course, responsibility does imply more stress, and thus does require more reward that should be given in terms of income package.

I am not sure about other countries, but in India, I belive, at these times, the scaling is way of the scales. A techie with a Bachelors Degree would get about 250$ to 300$ per month as a starting package. Now the same for a B-School graduate on an average would be anywhere around 1000$ to 1500$ per month as a starting package. That would be about 1:4 scaling that I am not sure is fair or not - no matter in which country that may be.

[sparkx]

I don't know what country your living in were coding is for low lifes, I may just be the youngst person on this forums but I know one thing, In my country Flash 8 is not considered programming, In my opinion not even HTML or Javascript are programs, C++, PHP and Java will get the job done well.