27 replies to this topic

[lonelym]

Should abortion be permitted?

I don't think so. First because abortion is like killing someone. Killing a child, exactly. Killing a child without his/her consent. I don't think that is right.

Firstly, if the parents decided to have children, they should have prepared for the children. How would they support the baby if they can't support themselves? The child did not ask to be brought into this world. He/She was brought into this world because of the parent's choices, and now the parent's would just dispose of the child? Sexual intercourse is not just an activity for fun, it includes the chance of having a child. It isn't the parent's choice to have an abortion or not. It isn't their life that they are choosing, its the child's.

Second, the child has its own life. It was hand-selected by God because it was the most fertile and best sperm and egg cells of the parents. When you kill the baby, what happens then? You just wasted God's blessing, and killed someone.

I think there should be a law about abortion. It isn't right.

[ethergeek]

That's a volatile can of worms you're opening there...

Honestly, if it's not my kid, I couldn't care less if a woman has an abortion...if there's some moral repercussions, or some religious impact, it's her that answers to God, not me. On the other hand, if it is my kid, I think that an abortion should require consent of both parents. If the child was created with consent of both parents, why should destroying that creation be a unilateral decision on one person?

[Jeigh]

I believe that the choice should not be made for the mother. This is not to say I'm pro-abortion. On the contrary, excluding extreme scenarios (pregnancy after rape for an example) I feel abortion should be avoided when possible, but at the same time I dont think it's our place to force this choice onto mothers. You obviously have religious motivation to your choice, while I am Christian I don't think abortion should be banned because of this. People should always be given a choice to do what is 'right' or 'wrong' (I'm not saying abortion is wrong).

Now, abortion only kills a child if you consider it a 'child' the day of conception. Frankly to me, if there is no heartbeat and not even a formed fetus except a mass of egg/sperm then frankly I don't see it as killing a being any more then using a condom would be killing a child or nocturnal emission would be killing a child. Further there are cases where having a child simply because you dont agree with abortion would lead that child down a life much, much worse then death. Abusive parents, poverty to an extent of death by starvation, life in prison due to crime at a young age just to survive, etc.

So yes, while personally I can't see me ever encouraging someone to go through with an abortion if I got her pregnant, I think the choice should be hers to make. Not the respective government wherever she resides.

[MediYama]

That's a volatile can of worms you're opening there...

Honestly, if it's not my kid, I couldn't care less if a woman has an abortion...if there's some moral repercussions, or some religious impact, it's her that answers to God, not me. On the other hand, if it is my kid, I think that an abortion should require consent of both parents. If the child was created with consent of both parents, why should destroying that creation be a unilateral decision on one person?

Most religious people disagree with abortions, because the Christian bible for example, clearly states that a person shall not commit murder. So as far as I know most religious people disagree with it, unless it's something in a religion that I don't know about. However I'm a Christian and I seriously think it's bad. It's like murder, as lonelym states too.

[JohnNitro]

I don't like it either but some people don't decided to have a child it just happens, and some feel they are not ready and there only option is to have an abortion. Then you have the Gods factor, well God gave us all these abilities and if God didn't want then to happen God wouldn't let it happen. With any advance in science it can be used for good or evil or what we think it good and evil. I understand your killing a blessing but would you want to bring a blessing into a world you know you yourself can't handle. I'm not sure if i'm for or against but I know if it was my child and the women wanted to kill it, I would object but it's her body and you need to respect that. Abortions suck if everyone was rich we would be ok.

[NeoTeemZ]

First, I'd like to comment on some of the points mentioned in the thread-starting post before I write my own view on the subject. And even though many of my opinions have already been expressed by other members, I might have a thing or two to add here...

Should abortion be permitted?

I don't think so. First because abortion is like killing someone. Killing a child, exactly.

Jeigh addressed this point beautifully. What is a child? Is it the being that comes out of a woman's womb? Is it the 3rd trimester fetus which has a 50% chance of living outside its mother's womb? Is it the embryo implanted in a uterus, yet to form primitive heart, brain, spinal cord, and other body organs? Is it the fertilized zygote which forms when a sperm penetrates an ovum?

Having studied basic embryology for more than a year, I still can't honestly and clearly answer these questions. We need to first determine what a child - a human being - is exactly before we can talk about killing it. What if the fertilized product of a sperm and an ovum doesn't become a child for the first 2 months of pregnancy? Wouldn't that, according to aforementioned quote, mean that abortion is fine during those first 2 months?

We do know a lot about the phases and stages of embryonic and fetal development, but we're still debating human nature itself! What makes this mass of carbon and hydrogen atoms a living being? What distinguishes it from a rock or the computer screen you're reading this on? These questions are still undergoing major philosophical and even religious debate. And, until we can answer these questions, everything we say is an arbitrary opinion, at best.

Firstly, if the parents decided to have children, they should have prepared for the children. How would they support the baby if they can't support themselves?

What about "accidental" and "non-consensual" pregnancies? What about unforeseen events and life crises? What about the time-proven fact that no plan is 100% iron-clad?

If parents had to be completely, totally, and utterly certain that they can provide for and support their children before they were born, no child would ever be born! Don't get me wrong, I don't think of birth-giving as an absolute necessity to begin with; I'm merely trying to debate different points of view.

The child did not ask to be brought into this world. He/She was brought into this world because of the parent's choices, and now the parent's would just dispose of the child? Sexual intercourse is not just an activity for fun, it includes the chance of having a child. It isn't the parent's choice to have an abortion or not. It isn't their life that they are choosing, its the child's.

This is a rather interesting point when you come to think about it: Choice!

You see, the parents are the one who chose to give birth to the child. God, according to many religious folk, gave existence to man. The same religious folk argue that this "gift" gives God the right to demand whatever He/She/It wants of man, life included. This makes me wonder, how can the same religious folk say that it's not the parents' right to take the life of their children if/when they want?

Again, this also is said merely for the sake for argument

It was hand-selected by God because it was the most fertile and best sperm and egg cells of the parents. When you kill the baby, what happens then? You just wasted God's blessing, and killed someone.

Of course, this point bears no significance whatsoever to someone who doesn't believe in God, or even to those who do believe in a different God other than the Abrahamic God (i.e. the almost-common God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam).

I think there should be a law about abortion.

A human law, almost by definition, requires the consensus of the majority within its relevant community. For example, in a largely religious society, it's fairly reasonable to expect that abortion will be outlawed, since the majority will choose it to be so. But what if this is not the case? We'll then need to answer the questions I started my post with before any reasonable, rational person can make an educated decision.


Having said all this, I'd like to stress that I'm not pro-abortion. Actually, I'm rather anti-abortion. But to state my opinion clearly and thoroughly, I have to share many of my general beliefs, most of them bear no relevance to the subject at hand. So I have to leave it at that for now.

Also, I'd like to congratulate you, lonelym on your enthusiasm and your concern. It's very rare to find someone as young as you are who cares about such matters. If only there were more people like you...

[Unregistered 011]

I'm kind of sitting on the fence for Abortion.. Like people have said already, it's a human being and without their consent they are going to be killed. And that's obviously wrong, but if the parents can't support the baby, or it's going to be in a home with parents who are really young , then it wouldn't be a good idea to have the baby. So I guess the best choice would be to put the baby to adoption, but if that was me, I would hate my self for doing that because most likely I would never I would see my kid ever again, and the mother would go though so much pain for a baby they will never have..

[lonelym]

What about "accidental" and "non-consensual" pregnancies? What about unforeseen events and life crises? What about the time-proven fact that no plan is 100% iron-clad? smile.gif

Yes, that is true. But even if we say that the baby is born, the child is still the parent's responsibility. If the child is born, then they have no choice but to work to harder to provide for the child. The parent should not be given the choice of killing the child. It's wrong. I don't know how to explain it, it's very hard... Give me a few days to think about it and I'll write some more in this thread.

If parents had to be completely, totally, and utterly certain that they can provide for and support their children before they were born, no child would ever be born! Don't get me wrong, I don't think of birth-giving as an absolute necessity to begin with; I'm merely trying to debate different points of view.

Touche! ^^ That is a very good point. I have nothing else to add.

Of course, this point bears no significance whatsoever to someone who doesn't believe in God, or even to those who do believe in a different God other than the Abrahamic God (i.e. the almost-common God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam).

Yes, it was not wise for me to base things on opinions, or religions.

A human law, almost by definition, requires the consensus of the majority within its relevant community. For example, in a largely religious society, it's fairly reasonable to expect that abortion will be outlawed, since the majority will choose it to be so. But what if this is not the case? We'll then need to answer the questions I started my post with before any reasonable, rational person can make an educated decision.

Yes, I wasn't thinking clearly when I wrote this. This law shouldn't be a true or false statement, rather, a case to case problem. I might sound confusing because my english isn't that good. What I mean is, sometimes, there are special cases wherein we would need to understand what happened, and we might have to decrease the punishment, if that is the correct term.

Edited by lonelym, 01 July 2007 - 09:04 AM.

[Sweet Impact]

^ I don't think abortion should be permitted. Even though there is a "good reason" to allow it, I believe there will be people who will abuse it... Killing unborn babies anytime they want.

[lonelym]

Yes, and probably incubating the organs which they could sell and soon, more problems will surface.

[ethergeek]

Yes, and probably incubating the organs which they could sell and soon, more problems will surface.

Interesting idea...advanced organ donation.

[Sweet Impact]

Should abortion be permitted?

I don't think so. First because abortion is like killing someone. Killing a child, exactly. Killing a child without his/her consent. I don't think that is right.

Firstly, if the parents decided to have children, they should have prepared for the children. How would they support the baby if they can't support themselves? The child did not ask to be brought into this world. He/She was brought into this world because of the parent's choices, and now the parent's would just dispose of the child? Sexual intercourse is not just an activity for fun, it includes the chance of having a child. It isn't the parent's choice to have an abortion or not. It isn't their life that they are choosing, its the child's.

Second, the child has its own life. It was hand-selected by God because it was the most fertile and best sperm and egg cells of the parents. When you kill the baby, what happens then? You just wasted God's blessing, and killed someone.

I think there should be a law about abortion. It isn't right.

It should not be permitted. In case it would be legalized, I'm afraid some people will abuse it. Only God can take away the life he gave.

[lonelym]

Yes. It can be abused in ways such as producing babies for organ incubation and selling. That would go over man's morals and virtues. It'd be like killing young babies so older people could live.

[baby bear]

Should abortion be permitted?

I don't think so. First because abortion is like killing someone. Killing a child, exactly. Killing a child without his/her consent. I don't think that is right.

Firstly, if the parents decided to have children, they should have prepared for the children. How would they support the baby if they can't support themselves? The child did not ask to be brought into this world. He/She was brought into this world because of the parent's choices, and now the parent's would just dispose of the child? Sexual intercourse is not just an activity for fun, it includes the chance of having a child. It isn't the parent's choice to have an abortion or not. It isn't their life that they are choosing, its the child's.

Second, the child has its own life. It was hand-selected by God because it was the most fertile and best sperm and egg cells of the parents. When you kill the baby, what happens then? You just wasted God's blessing, and killed someone.

I think there should be a law about abortion. It isn't right.

I know there are very strong opinions regarding this and I don't even know if I want to voice mine. so all I'm going to say is I'm pro abortion.

[lonelym]

Would you please write your opinions to further discuss the topic? Or would you prefer to summarize your views with your given sentence?

[baby bear]

ok but see the reason why I didn't want to write too much is because we started this subject in our school and I became very argumentitive regarding this subject and it lasted about a month before the teachers put a stop to the subject.

ok so here it goes.

I am pro abortion because sometimes there are sertain sircumstances where it would be best for the parents and possibly for the child. like if the parents are poor and can't afford to have a child. or if the mom has a sertian health condition where it would effect the child.

[lonelym]

if the parents are poor and can't afford to have a child.

If the parents are poor, then why did they choose to produce a human being? As I have said in my first post, Sexual intercourse is not just an activity for fun, it includes the chance of having a child, and the responsibility of taking care of it.

if the mom has a sertian health condition where it would effect the child.

If the mom really did have a certain condition where it would effect the child badly, then I am confused as to why she had sex with her husband. They should have thought about the responsibilities that would surface if they do such actions.

My original post with certain sentences I put emphasis to.

Firstly, if the parents decided to have children, they should have prepared for the children. How would they support the baby if they can't support themselves? The child did not ask to be brought into this world. He/She was brought into this world because of the parent's choices, and now the parent's would just dispose of the child? Sexual intercourse is not just an activity for fun, it includes the chance of having a child. It isn't the parent's choice to have an abortion or not. It isn't their life that they are choosing, its the child's.

Second, the child has its own life. It was hand-selected by God because it was the most fertile and best sperm and egg cells of the parents. When you kill the baby, what happens then? You just wasted God's blessing, and killed someone.

I think there should be a law about abortion. It isn't right.

Btw, its argumentative, not argumentitive. (I searched it in Merriam Webster. ^^)

Edited by lonelym, 21 July 2007 - 11:35 AM.

[NeoTeemZ]

lonelym, I think you're looking at this the wrong way . Let me explain...

Take a look at the following two questions of yours, directed at baby bear in regard to her latest comment:

If the parents are poor, then why did they choose to produce a human being?

If the mom really did have a certain condition where it would effect the child badly, then I am confused as to why she had sex with her husband. They should have thought about the responsibilities that would surface if they do such actions.

Do you see what these two questions have in common? They're not discussing abortion; they're discussing irresponsible cases of pregnancy.

Deeming abortion illegal, which I suppose is what you're arguing for won't solve any problem in the abovementioned cases. The parents won't get richer or become more responsible. And, more importantly, the child will still have to suffer the consequences of the irresponsible actions of his/her parents! Actually, in cases like these, abortion seems to be the better solution for both the child and the parents.

Now, why not go straight to the source of the problem, i.e. irresponsible conceptions, instead of its consequence, i.e. abortion? Perhaps it might make more sense if we proposed some form of legal action against parents who are found guilty of irresponsible conception.

What do you think?

[baby bear]

my sister had sex with a man named mark. he had something I don't remember what it's called but when I do i'll post it. but anyways she had a kid with the man and now her kid has it. her kids name is drea. he's mentaly retarted and he has the condition also and almost all people who get it die in the their late 20s or early 30s. drea will die before my sister will. now drea suffers because mindy didn't have an abortion because people kept telling her that she would go to hell if she had an abortion.

[lonelym]

lonelym, I think you're looking at this the wrong way . Let me explain...

Take a look at the following two questions of yours, directed at baby bear in regard to her latest comment:
Do you see what these two questions have in common? They're not discussing abortion; they're discussing irresponsible cases of pregnancy.

Deeming abortion illegal, which I suppose is what you're arguing for won't solve any problem in the abovementioned cases. The parents won't get richer or become more responsible. And, more importantly, the child will still have to suffer the consequences of the irresponsible actions of his/her parents! Actually, in cases like these, abortion seems to be the better solution for both the child and the parents.

Now, why not go straight to the source of the problem, i.e. irresponsible conceptions, instead of its consequence, i.e. abortion? Perhaps it might make more sense if we proposed some form of legal action against parents who are found guilty of irresponsible conception.

What do you think?

Yes, if they already had a child, abortion seems to be the best solution for both the parents. What I understand from what you are saying is that we shouldn't do something about preventing it, because it's already happening. Instead, we should try to solve the problem that is already at hand, instead of preventing it.

What I don't understand is the fact that the child is killed because of the irresponsible cases of pregnancy. The fact that the child growing in the mother's womb is a living being convinces me that killing it is wrong. I mean, what is the difference between murdering an adult to murdering a child? Wouldn't murdering a child be even worse?

Yes, doing abortion would clearly help both the parents, both financially and in health, but since the parents made the mistake (irresponsible cases of pregnancy) shouldn't they take the consequences for their actions? Why should the child, born into this world take the consequence?

my sister had sex with a man named mark. he had something I don't remember what it's called but when I do i'll post it. but anyways she had a kid with the man and now her kid has it. her kids name is drea. he's mentaly retarted and he has the condition also and almost all people who get it die in the their late 20s or early 30s. drea will die before my sister will. now drea suffers because mindy didn't have an abortion because people kept telling her that she would go to hell if she had an abortion.

I supposed it is a STD, but I hope not. Anyways...

Do not think of it as a wrong choice of having them do abortion. I believe living is better than not living at all. And so, another question pops up in my mind.

WHAT is the purpose of life? If life is filled with problems and questions that we need to solve, WHY do we even need to solve it? Why can't he just get on with it? (Just kill ourselves) We'll all die anyways. Is living really that worth it to endure and solve all the problems we will encounter?

And so, once you find out the answers to that, come back to me. Once we know the answers, we'll know if Drea really is better off abortion-ed or if she is better living a hard life.

Off topic: I walk around my school, watching children play, friends chat, and barkadas (groups of people) enjoy their time. I sit, alone, thinking about the purpose of life, and the questions I stated above. I wonder if they (students) even know why they live, and what their answers are to the questions above.

Edited by lonelym, 25 July 2007 - 01:32 PM.