27 replies to this topic

[moonwitch]

Lately I've noticed an influx of people who seem to be rather fond of chat slang; eg. ur, m8, l8, kewl, ...

I would like to point out that it *is* indeed frowned upon, this does not show your superior intellect nor does it testify of your maturity. While I understand that it is easier to type this way in chat, it is not ok to do the same in posts here. Mainly because it does not make your post very readable, it often leads to confusion, and in general a lot of people just ignore the post.

You will increase your chances on a speedy, good reply if you take the time to formulate your sentences, use punctuation and for the love of all that is considered holy - just to cover all bases - type in plain English. I don't think that we all are English, in fact I am Belgian, English is my second language, but as long as you try - it is fine by me. Just make the effort of formulating your sentences instead of slapping them on the screen in an incoherent way.

And while I am on this topic, I would like to stress the importance of not overusing the "Return" key. Don't hit your enter-key two or three times after each sentence, it really is redundant. Just one white-line will do to mark the end of a paragrah and the beginning of a new one. You won't cheat the credits script.

[szupie]

I don't think it should be that hard to write correct sentences. English is my second language too, and I don't find it difficult to write it. After all, what you're writing is essentially what you're saying, right? If you can read aloud what you have written, and it makes sense to you, it'll make sense to most people.
However, there are some mistakes that cannot be detected by just reading your writing aloud. You may have used a homonym instead of the word you really mean (like "they're" instead of "their" or "would of" instead of "would've/would have"). These mistakes can't be fixed without a human (that is, a machine can't fix it). However, they probably won't affect our reading speed unless you make them too many times. Another mistake is spelling errors. You can easily fix this by using a spell checker. Google Toolbar (for Firefox and Internet Explorer) includes a handy spell checker.

As for the punctuation and the "Return" key. Punctuation is really important. Whenever you sense a pause in your sentences, you should put a comma there. Commas make it much easier for the reader to understand what you mean. You should also capitalize the first letter in a sentence so that it is easier to find when a sentence begins and when it ends. You should use the "Return" key when you're changing the subject. It could be used to get the reader's attention. However, if you use too much of it, none of your paragraphs will get enough attention.

[cyborgxxi]

Honestly, I have observed that there aren't as many people using such Internet slang - eg. ur, m8, l8, kewl, etc. I am happy with that because people can communicate more efficiently and in a better way! I mean, still, there are those MSN users who use lol omg 0wnage and stuff like that but...

Well, I don't have anything to say about that. I just ... have to say that there are two kinds of communicators:

Formal and Informal

An example of formal would be:
-Hello, my name is Jim Jones. What's yours? Oh, that's funny.

An example of informal would be:
-sup im jim jones n wads urs??? lol omfg dats funny

I think there's people in between and those in the extreme regions but... still, I hope you know what I'm talking about

But anyway, to stay on topic - spelling and grammar is very important when you're trying to communicate because misuse of those esssential parts of a language can lead to accidents! People taking things the wrong way, misunderstands, incomprehension, etc.

There's nothing wrong against it but I think it should be kept polished because it's just good

[moonwitch]

While I have no objection to use OMG, LOL etc. it's the "sup im jim jones n wud u blieve dis if i said dat u sux0rs" It takes people ages to decypher it and doesn't really relay anything that is worth the time to decypher. Of course I am exaggerating the use of chat slang, but my point is reasonably simple.

Astahost is aiming to be a tech-savvy forum where hosting as giving to those posting decent posts, but then you have the applications of those that can't even be bothered to write their sentences out fully.

[Sarah81]

If people who don't speak English as a first language can make perfect sense on this forum, then so can those of us who grew up learning to read and write this language.

I hate wading through posts filled with chatspeak, l33t and other indecipherable garbage. I really do. I don't expect *perfect* grammar or spelling, but I would rather see someone misspell or mess up an attempt to write correctly, than not even bother and instead post meaningless "hey dis is sux0rz" or whatever.

[moonwitch]

That's basically how I feel Sarah. It's not that I can't make sense out of chatspeak or 13375p34k (leetspeak), it just takes me ages. And seeing it used in posts just makes me cringe.

I'll share a little story - A friend of mine, who is in her mid-thirties and teaches theatre arts in a middle school, was talking to me not too long ago, she told me about a friend of hers. And now I will quote her exact typing...

"I have a friend that is trying to..."

Who sees the wrong in that very partial sentence? I did in fact cringe when I noticed the grave grammatical error she made. I did not point it out, but checked and saw to my great horror that it seemed to be a common mistake for her.

For the record, the correct version would be "I have a friend, who is trying to...". Basically, if you use "that" when it is pointing to a noun which indicates a person, that person would be an inanimate object, not a person. If it is a person, you should use "who" or "whose" depending on the sentence of course.

While I am far from knowledgable about English Grammar, I do try and can spot some errors. Mistakes like the aforementioned are common and excusable - for non-native speakers, for educated native speakers, it is not excusable. (I am rather pedantic when it comes to spelling and grammar, but it did get me a few "awards" for spelling bees in Belgium)

Anyhow, mistakes like that, I have no issues with, but it's the use of "ur" etc that I feel shows a lack of willingness to invest any energy into posting, so it makes me feel that I should not invest my own time and energy in replying.

(PS. It is though .. not tho... through and not thru and to/too/two not 2)

[Transcendum]

Personally, I don't have a big problem with using slang or short-hands in oline conversations in general, as long as they are widely known and 'standardized'-like. I don't commonly use them, but still I don't mind others using them.

But yes, I do have a problem with people who make it a consistent style of writing. It can get pretty annoying.

And as for spelling and grammatical mistakes, I can live with them as long as they're not intentional. I mean, I usually re-read whatever I write before I post. Not only it's a good way to correct the mistakes I invariably make, but I also get some new ideas and better ways to formulate what I have to say.

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread, since I have a special interest in this subject. I hope we can come up with some nice, applicable ideas .

[cyborgxxi]

Yeah, it's really an interesting topic to keep an eye on. Don't you think so?

But anyway, I think there is a program/sub-program/application that helps with spelling errors in a webpage or the text you type in your web browser (not the URL bar, but anywhere).

I don't know where you can find it or what it even is, but I'm sure I've heard about it... I think. Hehehe... interesting thing to look into, though. But now, I have to study for the three tests for tomorrow.

Wish me luck everybody
Go practice with Mavis Beacon!

[Transcendum]

But anyway, I think there is a program/sub-program/application that helps with spelling errors in a webpage or the text you type in your web browser (not the URL bar, but anywhere).

Well, I suppose most of us have some sort of Word Processing software (e.g.: Microsoft Word, Quark XPress, Office.Org suite, etc.) that has built-in spelling and grammatical checking. Perhaps it might be a good idea to write whatever we want using these applications and then 'copy'n'paste' it afterwards.

But that's not the only way. For people who don't have this sort of software, or don't want to be bothered with it, I believe Google's Toolbar has a spell-checking module. It's fast and simple and, as far as it seems to me, accurate. It has no grammar-checking, though.

For those interested, here's where you can know more about the Google Toolbar...

Google Toolbar Webpage

But now, I have to study for the three tests for tomorrow. Wish me luck everybody

Good luck, cyborg. Hope you do just great .

[Houdini]

Being a contributor on PHP Builder in the forums ocassionally you will see posts that do have such garbage, but you also see that it is evident that some are not comfortable with the English language. I will also preface this with stating that my job in the United States Navy was to train pilots, all pilots and also those that speack with them speak in English, it is the international language for that industry.

Many who do not speack or possibly have difficulties with the language of English can get their point out, and they do not use UR or any chat or (CB type lingo from the old Compuserve days). In a chat room I can see that because that is real time and the quicker the response the better, but a forum for asking questions to those that might not have the chat manual handy to respond might not really know just what the h e double toothpicks you are talking about.

I am the worst about mispelling or possibly it is that the keys are in the wrong place of my keyboard (if only I could invent the smart keyboard that knows what I mean to press) so I don't mind a misspell or comma splice or even an occasional abbreviation. As an example I was in FASO in the US Navy which is the acronymn for Fleet Avation Specialized Operations but where I was assagned was FASOTRAGRULANT-DETCECIL which of course stands for Fleet Avaition Specialized Operations Traning Group Atlantic Fleet Detachment Cecil Field ( I know it does not exactly work correctly, ask the Navy about that part). So Sometime I can see an acronym but if it had in parenthesis what it stands for it would be nice.

[aimeemayonnaise]

I would like to point out that it *is* indeed frowned upon, this does not show your superior intellect nor does it testify of your maturity. While I understand that it is easier to type this way in chat, it is not ok to do the same in posts here. Mainly because it does not make your post very readable, it often leads to confusion, and in general a lot of people just ignore the post.

Personally, I find it very hard to type in "ChatSpeak" in the first place. I end up typing something that looks like someone tripped over with a load of Scrabble letters.

If it is a honest mistake, then I don't mind that. It's the people who intentionally type in "ChatSpeak" that annoy me, partly because I have no idea what they're trying to say. On that note, it also annoys me when these people complain about "not being listened to" and such when no one can actually understand what they are attempting to say in the first place.

I also don't mind the occasional "LOL", "BRB" and "OMG" as I am familar with these by using MSN with my friends. But some people take it too far, such as, "LOL!!!111!1!!!eleven" which is a waste of characters if you ask me.

(Also, good luck Cyborgxxi and hope you did well -- even though you've already done your tests now.)

[Opethian]

I'm glad to be able to see there are people here who have been having the same amount of trouble in regards to the new generation of grammar trolls. When you think about it, instant messaging via the web, or via the mobile phone, somewhat has helped degrade english speaking in various forms.

[littleweseth]

Personally, I think everyone should just go read Eric S. Raymond's Smart Questions FAQ, then sit down and read a few well-written books of some sort.

Unrelatedly, studyig grammar and stuff in school didn't really do anything for me. After being a book addict since the tender age of three, correct spulling and grammar vocaublary and come naturally. I could pick any misformed English phrase and intuitively tell you how it needed to be changed, but I couldn't tell you exactly why.

[evought]

Lately I've noticed an influx of people who seem to be rather fond of chat slang; eg. ur, m8, l8, kewl, ...

I would like to point out that it *is* indeed frowned upon, this does not show your superior intellect nor does it testify of your maturity. While I understand that it is easier to type this way in chat, it is not ok to do the same in posts here. Mainly because it does not make your post very readable, it often leads to confusion, and in general a lot of people just ignore the post.

<snip>

Something else to keep in mind, too, is that Astahost makes money from ad revenue largely driven by search engine hits. Poor spelling means less search hits, means less revenue, yields less service. If you appreciate Astahost, keep this in mind when posting.

[miCRoSCoPiC^eaRthLinG]

Something else to keep in mind, too, is that Astahost makes money from ad revenue largely driven by search engine hits. Poor spelling means less search hits, means less revenue, yields less service. If you appreciate Astahost, keep this in mind when posting.

That's another reason why the topic titles of almost all posts are edited here to reflect the content better. This helps our posts get very good ranking on the search engines. Besides sometimes it gets quite necessary to rename topic titles, as some members make posts with really odd and short titles which leave one totally in the dark as to the real content of the post. That is entirely undesirable on out forums .. we try to keep the garbage out as much as possible and only the useful stuff in - to try and help make your life a breeze when it comes to locating documents .

[Pharoah]

I really dont mind when people mis spell words or make little errors, and simple chat speak is okay (like LOL, w8, u, 4), but I think 1337 makes you look like an idiot. It just takes too much time to read, and its almost always garbage. You dont often see much leetspeek anymore, and i think that is a good thing. One Thing I Find Really Annoying Is Those People Who Type Like This, Where Every Word Is A Capital Letter! This is really annoying (both for the reader and your pinkies), and there is absolutely no reason for it. All caps is better than this, because at least it gives the eye an idea of what to expect.

On the flipside, I HATE people who are always correcting little mistakes. For instance, in this post I havent been using apostrophes. This is because for some reason FireFox has chosen to open the page search box when I hit them (an intermittent bug). Would I want people to point it out, NO! Forums are about conversation and building a community (and for Astra showing ads), not a seminar on correct grammar and spelling.

Thanks if you read this REALLY long post, I finally decided to voice my opinions on this topic.

[ThePhenomenalDream]

Oh boy, don't get me started on 1337 speak. It's highly annoying and just imagine when it comes time for the person to ask a serious question, no one is gonna take him seriously. Some chat speak is ok with me (lol for example) but when ppl talk lyke dis it getz on mi nerves. Typin lyke a 6 yr old is gonna bring teh sayme problem wen it cums to askin serious questionz, u will l00k lyke an idiot.

I may seem like a big grammar and spelling freak, but there's people worst then me. I'm talking about the people Pharoah talked about. The people who will pick out every little mistake in what you have to say for example, you'll put down something like youre or your instead of you're oh well, pointing it out isn't proving anything, just that the person made a small grammar mistake.

[Pharoah]

One time I was on a site (can't remember which) where some wierd guy sent a complaint letter to the webmaster, entirely in 1337 speak!! I thought it had died out, but apparently not. My guess is that it was actually a VERY tiny subculture of people, which has gotten a little more attention than it deserves because of the way that they type. I read that it was designed to look like binary files to "un-initiated" people! What are they hiding? Multiple forum posts of "Jooz noobz"? Cracks of doom 1.0? The idea is just stupid.

And with regaurd to the people who point it out, maybe they think it makes their penis larger??
(feel free to edit that if it isn't allowed moddies)

[Pharoah]

Unrelatedly, studyig grammar and stuff in school didn't really do anything for me. After being a book addict since the tender age of three, correct spulling and grammar vocaublary and come naturally. I could pick any misformed English phrase and intuitively tell you how it needed to be changed, but I couldn't tell you exactly why.

That is exactly how I am. I find it fairly hard to do the grammar stucff in school, and the mistakes in the book I don't get, but I notice everything in the real world that counts. It seems like even my (very good) English teachers may not be using some of the rules (like whom all the time, or he when it should be him), but I can get by and my writing can look intelligent if I want it to.

[mpinsky]

As I've said before, spelling and grammar is important, plus I find it takes longer for me to type something in 1337 or any other kind of webspeak. Not only that, but I find it takes longer to read it too. And camel caps take even longer because the human eye is taught to read straight and not up and down, such as when looking at camel caps.

The reason for all of this?

Human nature: laziness.