I first would like to thank both hashbang for starting this topic and for management for allowing topics concerning God in the forums at all.

In viewing the responses it is clear that there is wide range of perspectives concerning not only the topic of God's hand in natural disasters, but if there is a single God at all.

If you were to scan the conversation between MajesticTreeFrog and I concerning the big bang theory you would come to realize that I DO believe in a single God, who created the entire universe.

In order to discuss the topic at hand, one has to express whether or not there is a God at all. After all, if there is no God, then obviously He wounldn't have a hand in natural disasters.

Not coming from a religious background, (non-practicing Catholic) I, as a young man had no real basis to establish a belief system. I felt like OpaQue...



There truth of the matter is that most of us realize there is a higher power of some kind out there, but we never take the time to try to find out who or what this power is, nor do we make any efforts to get to know and understand this power.

The sad part is most totally reject the possibility of a single God mainly because we live in a society that teaches a "unity in diversity" philosophy when it comes to religion. The resault is we all end up creating the god we want to worship in our own minds. We find a piece of doctrine and if it fits in the doctrine we have made up, be choose to believe it, if not we reject it.

That is why in the US alone there are over 20,000 registered religions that proclaim tha Jesus Christ is Lord. Think about this for a moment. There are 20,000 religious doctrines (man-made opinions ) each attempting to understand God's single Truth. No wonder there are so many seeking the truth in other places.

Over ten years ago I made the decision to search for myself to see if there was a single God or not. In the Bible it states that if we seek God with an earnest heart, we will find Him.

As one of the posts stated in so many words, it would be impossible for me to convince you, or anyone for that matter, that there is a single God. Why? Because it is a matter of the heart. God promises us that He will write His laws and precepts on our hearts, not our mind.

God is ever ready to touch our hearts. However, He does not want our servitude out of force. That is why He gave us the freedom to either choose or reject Him. If we seek Him earnestly we will find Him, and His single Truth, if not, we will accept whatever thruth we make up in our own minds.

Before one can truly give their perspective on whether or not God has a hand in natural disasters, they must first decide whether or not there is a God or not in their own mind.

If their conclusion is that there is no God, then the answer is simple, No. However, if they find that there is a single God, then they have to refer to the Word of God to understand His nature in dealing with mankind and the sins they commit.

In reading and studying God's Word, it is plain that God does, in fact, take an active role in dealing with, not only in our personal lives, but in nations as a whole as well.

As a result of personal study in God's Word, I do believe beyond any doubt in my mind that God does take an active role in events like the disaster in Asia. His word is full of examples of His nature in regards to sin against Him.

While I am not saying God brought this actions against these people, I am not saying He didn't either. In considering the facts, that part of the world is basically pagan. Whose to say that it wasn't God taking action on a land that has rejected Him for so long? I don't know.

Here's some food for thought for those of you that might say; "I can't believe in a God that would do such a thing." Such a statement indicates that you are one of those who are establishing your own doctrine and creating in your mind the god that you want to serve, and not the God of creation.

If there is a single God, which I believe, and He spoke all that is into being, which I also believe, then it is His creation to with as He pleases. Who are we, the created to dispute Him, He holds our very next breath in His hands.

There are 1000's of things which are beyond the limits of Science.

One thing while reading your (pbolduc) post was, Life after death. All the people who have expereinced death have reported that they saw themselves lying on the floor. The could see the people around them. And most of them even claimed that the feeling was very devine and peaceful.

There is also a phenomenon called ASTRAL PROJECTION in which a person can travel out of his body.
According to crystalinks.com/astral.html ( Read for more information )


All this cannot be explained by Science. Does that give us a reason to believe in God ?

Although, just because science can not explain them today does not mean it cannot in the future ... man has always believed there were unexplainable things or certain 'truths' which have been dispelled over time.

I don't believe in a flat earth nor do I believe the earth is the center of the universe. I do believe that there are explainations for all things ... whether we have the capacity or technology to understand them is another question.

We are a emotive social creature which seeks explainations. If an explaination isn't available we conjour dieties or supernatural ones to supplicate our needs.

cheers
hashbang

PS I have this sinking feeling that I should be doing my 'real' job at the moment rather than responding to this post ... I don't attribute that feeling or emotion attached to it to a higherpower (unless you consider my employers :-) ).

We do not need science, proved or disproved, to have a reason to believe in God. the Word of God tells us that the very creation itself speaks of His existance.

Regarding astral projection, it most likely is possible. That is not to say that we should be delving into these areas. There are a lot of things that take place on the spiritual realm which, I believe, God never intended His people to mess with.

An interesting fact to consider is why are we here in the first place? Being a believer in a creator, God, I have to lean to what the Word of God says. The problem here is that most fail to take the time, or put forth any effort to settle the matter in their own mind.

You have to take it back to the Garden of Eden to fully grasp why we are here. Prior to the expulsion from the Garden, man, (Adam) walked in the presence of God. It was God's intent for us to fellowship with Him, in His presence. Sin caused the division between us and God. But God, knew before hand and had already established a plan of redemption, which came in the form of Jesus.

We were never created to seek after the things of this world. (i.e. money, big houses, fame, etc.) We were created to fellowship with our Creator in a Garden where all of our needs were met. Nothing more and nothing less. The Bible tells us that the will of God is that we know Him. Not know of Him, but actually get to know Him personally.

Those who think that God is too busy to care about them are gravely mistaken. He has the hairs on your head counted. He knew of you before you were conceived, in the whomb, and now, right where you are. You may not know of, or believe in Him, but He is not only aware of your existance, it is His will that you come to know Him, personally.

Why do we need a purpose? I think this is giving humans much more credit than we deserve. A sort of self importance which isn't warranted.

Why are cockroaches here too?

cheers
hashbang

yes, everything have its own purpose. cockroaches are for decomposition of meterials, same as flies does. otherwise, we'll have many un-decomposed meterials around us. scientifically, those undicomposed meterials will cause the "loop of natural resources" to stop.

so what r the purpose of human then? is it just to live? is it just to eat? just to consume all of the earth natural resources until there's nothing left? human being is a far far more advance life form than cockroaches are, you know?

"there is more than this life is"
what's that?
THE AFTER LIFE!

*guys, i m not trying 2 be emotional here. please understand. i m just trying 2 exchange my opinions here. so i hope that this can be a healthy discussion. no bad feelings, ok. hope something like this will widen our mind.

What I find strange is the need for us to have a purpose. It seems that whenever a conversation of this sort happens, that idea comes up.

I personally don't think that there is a 'purpose' in the sense being used here. There is no 'grand design' which would supply such a purpose.
To some, this seems very pessimistic, possibly fatalistic. It took me a long time to understand why people saw it that way. The reason is that, for them, this world has a purpose(The arrogant ones will tell you what it is, the others will claim ignorance, other than this deep intuitive belief that such a purpose exists, whatever it may be). To claim that the universe is purposeless is to declare to them that the universe has spun out of control, gone insane somehow, been unglued.

But that is only because to them, such a view is to say that the universe has LOST its purpose, where what I really mean is that I don't think it ever had one to begin with. No purpose has been lost, nothing has gone insane nor come unglued. Rather, the complex interweave of the universe strikes me as unguided, a sort of happy accident of litterally cosmic proportions.

And once again, for similar reasons, this strikes many as horrible pessimism, or perhaps youthful rebellion against a christian upbringing(which is impossible since I never had one).

But to me it is the opposite: It is the most optimistic view anyone could hold.
Why? Because that means I am lucky simply to live. To be an accident of this sort is to already be more lucky than the weekly lottery winner.
It means that whatever problems are faced by humanity are problems that are human in scale: no plan or design exists to crush our hopes nor foil our dreams. The problems that exist are solveable on THIS plane of existence, no matter how hard they seem.

But it also inspires a sense of duty, of responsibility. If I, my friends, indeed the entire world is but a happy accident, then no one may reasonably expect for it to happen again. And because this is so, not only I but all the other happy accidents on this planet had better take damn good care of it, because its the only one we get.

If this is a happy accident, then we should be noble and compassionate and honest and true, because that is the only way to really make it all worth a damn. There may be no purpose, no grand design, no man behind the curtain, but that doesn't mean that we as a species cannot give it a purpose, make a design. But it will require mankind to take off the curtain, stare itself in the eye, and realize that whether or not we agree about such things, WE are responsible for what occurs and for all intents and purposes, WE are the man behind the curtain, may we make ourselves worthy.

(ps, I am working on my writing, so tell me how you liked how that read. thx)

my friend, i believe there is this "grand design" working in our world.

do we really believe that this complex creatures such as us has existed spontanuesly in this world? do we really think that the complex and perfect structure of human DNA existed spontanuesly?

do we actually believe that humanity has existed by accident and by accident we are being a superior species with no purpose?

or we r here just to eat like monkeys, just to live like cockroaches, have s#x like dogs? is that acceptable?

do we believe that we are equipted with advanced mind better than any species in this world just to dominate them?



then if there's no purpose of humanity, then Agen Smith might be right!

There is a difference between "a need" as you put it, and wondering why. As stated in my second reply in this topic. The why is simple, and while I recognize your perspective on the matter (a non-believer), as well as your right to believe in what you want to, I still must state that our purpose for existance is we were created because it pleased God to do so. No other reason.



It is impossible to belive in a grand design, if you do not recognize a Creator. In fact, one has to make great efforts to justify in there mind the non-existance of a Creator. Why, simply because we were created for the sole purpose of fellowshipping with God, in His presence.

The problem is that most do not ever take the time to try to know God on a personal level. Its kind of like a neighbor I had across the street from my first house. He was an older man with whom, for the first three years, I had never even as much as said hi to. I judged him from a distance. I figured he and I had nothing in common, so why bother.

Late one night a drunk drive hit my mailbox, he completely demolished it and got his car stuck on the remaining post. In the noise and confusion, my neighbor came to see if he could help. While there was little conversation that night as we got the car off of the post, we had used his floor jack and the next day when I returned it, over a cold soda in his yard, we got to know each other better.

To make a long story short, that man was one of those guys, although they are few and far between, who left a mark on you. He became a good friend and confident of mine and knowing him changed my perspective on life, even before I became a believer.

The point being made here is that most treat God in the same manner as I did that man. The pre-conceive that God has nothing to offer them, so they ignore Him. Yet, just as that old man made a make on my life, God is waiting and ready to make a mark on their life, if they would only let Him. yet they run from Him.

Personally, I think they are arrogant ones, to deny the existance of the Creator, when His creation is not only all around them, but they themselves are part of the Creation as well. The Bible says thinking themselves wise, they become fools.



Not having a Christian upbringing is a good thing. As stated above in reply #1 there are over 20,000 professing Christian faiths out there. That's 20,000 man-made perspectives of God's single truth. The Word of God tells says let each man work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. We need not that man teach us, but the Spirit, that teaches truth, and does not lie.



In Genesis, it says that God destroyed the World (Noah's Flood which most evolutionist deny ever happening) because whatever man could conceive in his mind, he could do with his hands. In other words, man had reached a point where they felt they didn't need God any longer. They could save themselves. A pretty big slap in the face, the created telling the Creator He was no longer needed.

PS. I think you writing abilities are quite good.


pete

I m not a good believer/practioner , but i never forget that there is a higher self out there.



yes pbolduc is correct. i like his story. but god can give you more than lending a floor jack . and any of His creation who ignores him are the one who is arrogant.



so does god exist? in attending to this question, one should think, "searching for god wouldnt hurt me".

from my personal judgement, some of us dont want to search for Him because they want to be free.
God doesnt ask much from us, just to believe in His existance and fellowshipping him which only take a small fraction of your life.

like have been said before, searching for Him wont hurt you, and people who never search for him are the the one who is arrogant.