many of u said that muslims are terroristt .... well none of u said it directlyy but indirectlyy not juzz you everyone is saying dat muslims are terroristtt .... well I do agree that some ppl who call themselves muslims are involved in terrorist activities ... but todayyy it has become a fashion that whereever anything happenss juzzz blame muslimss...
without any proof or anything ... right after the incident happen all the officials say there must be a muslim involved in itt or alqaeda aur taliban can be behind thisss ............ like some of you ppl gave examples of wat happened in India.... without knowing da facttt you blamedd muslimsss... all u know is dat there was a riottt and ppl starting blamingg muslimmsssssss....

In Islam suicide bombing is absolutelyy Haramm (not allowed) anyone who died of suicide death can not enter into heaven.

we shud consider the reason why the suicide bombings have been increased so muchhh .... I saw an interview on a tv channel it was a men frm Afganistan who lost his five sons in an attackk by America ... and he has so much hatred feeling for america that I could understandd that this man can do anythingg.... see the world's most powerfull country droppping bombs on the weakestt countryyy killing thousands of innocent ppl.Im not against americans but American policies. they are certainly not killing the terroristtss butt makingg many innocent ppl terroristtt.. we shud understand that there must be a very huge reason behind suicide bombingg.... a nineteen years old girl attempting a suicide attack is a very biggg thingg and we shud understand the route causes tht wat made her so angry.

The conflict in the Middle East is further encouraged by political factors over resources and control over land. Religion is used as a front. The people in the Middle East just want to live their lives peacefully and America wont let this be, a logical extension to what the British has been doing for the last 2 centuries. If you think that Muslims can change this for themselves than you have been swayed to the right by the media machine. Christians are making their own extremists in Texas CHURCHES by mindlessly converting the young into extreme Christianity. Encouraging these divides is the media, because those at the top don’t want our society to ever unite because they like to divide and conquer; wake up. Just like the ROMANS, MUGHALS and EGYPTIANS and many others have done since day one.

This post has been edited by jesysk: Nov 16 2008, 01:10 PM

While i rather stay out of religious debates on the internet, some flames here were too much to accept. First of all Islam doesn't mean submission t comes from the word Salam in arabic meaning peace. As for all the terrorists which happen to be muslims, thats not islam. Every religiousity has extremets and since Islam is the punching bag of politicians atm you only hear about Muslim extremests. There are christian, Jewish as well as non-religious terrorists and extremists but you don't hear about them as much.

Also in Islam you don't have to be a muslim to enter heaven, i dont' think alot of religiousities say the same thing...
People who were born in africa or before islam came couldn't be judged for islamic religious duties because well they don't know about them. If you are a non-muslim you will be judged, according to islam, for things you did in life. For example you don't need a messenger from God to know that killing,stealing or hurting others is bad. In other words, you can pretty much die fighting muslims and still enter heaven. Example, some american soldiers in Iraq died while killing muslim resistors, not muslims terrorists, muslims who were defending Iraq from the american invasion. If those soldiers were good in their life, they enter heaven.
You might find it hard to accept the view of islam iam offering, especially with all the ****s claiming to be followers of islams and going 'All americans will burn in hell' or 'All non believers in islam must convert or die'... thats not islam.
What you see on the news is not Islam, its a bad version of islam, the version of extremists and flamers.

Also i hope that the starter of this topic didn't believe the flames without doing some research, because from his main post he said he understood.
Edit: sorry for the bad enlish

This post has been edited by khalilov: Nov 16 2008, 04:41 PM

Yes unlike most people here I am quite well aware that there was a time when it was Islam that was the more tolerant religion than Christianity. But that golden age of Islam is long in the past and for whatever reason Islam turned against the enlightened ideas of that time toward a more closed-minded fundamentalist view of their religion. Perhaps there is a potential for a more peaceful and tolerant religion in Islam still, but not if there isn't a message in Islam that can be seperated from the cultural baggage so that Islam can allow the culture can change for the better.




But you cannot expect us to believe that it is a coincidence that all these terrorists are muslim. It is not. It is in fact directly linked with the fact that the only theocratic societies in the world (since Tibet was conqured) are Muslim. I think that this proves two things. One is that Muslims prove themselves more willing to force their religion on everyone in their community and the second is that people can see quite clearly that Islam is a more useful tool for power and the domination of people than other religions. In the west we have a adopted a secularist philosophy that no religion should be used as a tool of power in that way. We have done so unanimously in the west because everyone really benefits, both the religious who can pursue their religious efforts with more honesty and less corruption and the government who can answer the needs of people less clouded by dubious religious sentiments.

Unfortunatly most of the things you said are ture, yes Islam had better times ofcourse, the time of the prophet and Imams (for shiaas). After the death of mohammad and Imams there were some who came out with wrong conclusions and started tricking muslims for their own benefits. Personally iam against any religous rule wheter it was islamic, christian or jewish. A religion is supposed to be perfect, free of any flaws otherwise its not a religion. Any political system using islam as a front is damaging islam because there is no ruling in the world without flaws, whether its America, Briton, France.... All have flaws in their systems(bribes, dirty tricks...). So when anyone uses any religiousity as a front it damages it.

Inshort, Islam didn't change, some of its followers did.

Depends on who you are talking about, there are muslims who will kill non-muslims (Al-Qaeda), muslims who ignore non-muslims and live isolated from them (they don't like or hurt you). And there are muslims who are open minded and treat non-muslims the same way they treat muslims.



There are many terorists that you don't see them as terrorists. Ones who aren't muslims, you don't here about them because either they exist in small groups in some 3rd world countries that noone knows about or you don't hear about them because of biased media coverage. I dunno about you but i see giving an order to turn a muslim cemetary into a museum qualifies as terrorism. Isolating a country because you didn't like the election's outcome qualifies as terrorism. kidnapping people and torturing them to death with no trial or any respectful treatment just because you think they are gona hurt you qualifies as terrorism.
Here is a question, if muslims took over half your country and kicked you out of your house because muslims used to live their 1000 years ago, wouldn't you call that terrorism?

Edit: just to clearify muslims never did that , iam just looking for an anwser

This post has been edited by khalilov: Nov 20 2008, 02:56 PM

Yes many people like to redefine words for the purpose of propaganda and propose ludicrous equivalences to justify themselves. The rapist and serial killer calls what he does "love". And the the criminals in the prisons call themselve victimized. But whatever lies that people might wish to tell themselves for their own self delusion, a rational society cannot believe such nonsense.

Terrorism is the attack on the innocent public in order to create fear for a political purpose, often to blackmail the governments responsible for the safety of these people. It is akin to kidnapping someones child and demanding ransom if they want to see their child alive again. These are the action of the lowest scum of the earth and pure evil. It does not speak well of your religion that you would rationalize this with such propaganda for it calls into question whether your religion is capable of intilling a proper distinction between good and evil in its believers.

The examples you give are examples of injustices due to disrespect and fear, but terrorism encourage these things because how should we respond to terrorism except with contempt and fear. The truth is that these terrorists want such events to ocurr and if others don't actually persecute the people they parasitically feed upon then they will do such things to their own people themselves to maintain the level of fear and disrespect in society (blaming it on their enemies of course) because that is the environment in which this disease thrives.

So basicly you respond to terorism by being more terorists?
How would you feel if country x opened its own version of Gwantanamo and filled it up with americans, british and french?
Would you check if those were terrorists or would you start world war III on that country and say 'Even if these are heartless rapists and criminals they deserve a just trial and a good treatment'



If these events help terrorists, then don't do them. And if these terrorists will do such things to their own people and then blame you for it then let them. Atleast you would be innocent of such accusations. But if truly are doing such things, then those terrorists are right as much as you are. I see both Al-Qaeda and US (government not people) as terrorists. Al-Qaeda with their suidal bombers blowing them selves up inside mosques and churches and US (again government not people) with their secret prisons and their abuse of 'Spreading democracy and human rights' in order to make things run their way.

Terrorism is a tactic, you can't start a war on terrorism by following the same tactics because as you said these things encourage and strengthen terrorists, which is happening. And don't believe that anyone actually gives a damn about fighting terrorism outside their borders. Before terrorism there was communism, before that there was nazism, and before that there was spreading civilized way of life. They just need something to make you accept the decisions they make just like terrorists intentionally misinterpret islam to justify suicide bombing of civilians. Iam pretty sure once the enthusiam of fighting terrorism wears off and people stop blindly accepting decisions because of 'terrorism threats' someone will come up with another excuse for such actions.

Don't misinterpret what iam saying, i am not defeding nazism. You had the right to fight that system and your victory over it benefited the entire world. Iam just saying that they always come up with an excuse for their actions. Sometime its valid, like when they were fighting nazism. Sometimes they make it up to justify their doings, like the soviet union and US cold war. I prefer US's point of view on things, but that doesn't mean that i see communists as criminals and blood thirsty bastards. Both soviet union and US used their people's hatred for the other system to force their point of view on third world countries who might have prefered a different view. The ones who were trully hurt were 3rd world countries that ended up in the middle.



Iam not sure i understood that part.

Note: I was told that earning mycents from this forum might be a glitch and when its fixed the mycents will be deducted, so don't count on any mycents you get from this discussion =)

This post has been edited by khalilov: Nov 22 2008, 02:28 PM

LOL Yes this is typical terrorist propaganda. They murder the innocence to provoke fear, disgust and anger and then call anything done about them terrorism. The extermination of terrorists is not terrorism, it is vermin control.

Not that what George W. Bush can be justified. I am highly suspicious of what he did and question whether he might actually have been involved in the terrorist attacks especially because of the blatant opportunism in what was done afterwards. I further suspect that he has no desire to destroy Al-Qaeda because they are too useful a tool for justifying armed intervention by which billions of dollars can be made by friends in the Oil and Weapons Industry.



I am sure that all victims of terrorists and their families would certainly wish that they were at Gwantoanamo rather than where they are now. So yes indeed I think we would trade something that was so much more civilized by comparison. There were for example no children at Gwantanamo.

The realization that Gwantanamo was not acceptable is a demonstration of how a democracy like the US regulates and impoves its own behavior. There is simply no comparison of this to what was done by Sadam Hussein or Al-Qaeda.



Is that what your religion teaches you? Some people think that murder is a tactic for getting what they want, but these murders should be executed. Some people think that kidnapping is a tactic for earning money, but such human refuse needs to be disposed of. Terrorism is not a legitimate tactic for any purpose. It is pure evil and a society which does not understand this, does not deserve to exist.



Obviously. But we must give no credit to the ridiculous propaganda that anyone is doing any such thing. But of course since you think terrorism is just a tactic for getting what you want then you think that those people flew planes full of civilians into buildings full of civilians because they were particularly clever.



No you are just defending terrorism which I cannot honestly say is any better.

This post has been edited by mitchellmckain: Nov 23 2008, 06:53 AM

I am not defending terrorism, iam defending islam from both terrorists and people like you who say islam = terrorism.

Some of these terrorists you exterminate happen to be innocents who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or simply people who disagree with your government.



I said its a tactic, i didn't say its a good tactic that is encouraged in my religiousity. Iam not defending terrorism here.

Like you said:
Thats the tactic.


That is true, most americans are against Gwantanamo and its gona be closed soon (hopefully), but the damage may have already been done. And iam pretty sure that there are several versions of gwantanamo around the world.


Again iam not defending terrorism.

This post has been edited by khalilov: Nov 23 2008, 04:44 PM