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Evolution? - Is evolution REALLY science? | ||
Discussion by Ronel with 10 Replies.
Last Update: January 9, 2008, 5:39 pm | |||
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Note: I'm not offending anyone.
Evolution really started in the 400 BC. At that time Aritotle, the father of Biology, was the only known person claiming it. So of course he taught it to Alexander the Great.
Evolution really became popular when Charles Darwin published his book claiming this theory, so scientists tried to find links and claim on this evollution, so Gregor Mendel's discoveries on Genetics was not given attention to scientists for 35 years!(ouch!) To tell you the truth, there were no scientific basis.
I tell you that evolution caused changes to mankind.
In World War II, Aldolf Hilter published his book, all about evolution, and thought that Germans were the supreme beings and Jews were inferior, so he killed about 6 million of them, and some were brought to America, but they didn't accept those Jews, also because they thought they were inferior! Also in World War II, Japanese, who were also exposed to evolution, thought of them being the supreme beings on a scientific basis of evolution! That is why they were so cruel to others during that time, because they thought they were the supreme beings!
In about 1958, 100 years after Darwin published his book, Americans thought of bringing evolution to all schools. Why? They thought it was the reason that the Soviets were the most advanced in astronomical technology. (What is building a sattelite got to do with evolution?) And aon 1963, they all rewrote the textbooks, adding more words on evolution, causing crimes to increase, and every bad statistic that you could imagine increased!(It's beacuse of the "evolution")
Q: Were there really evidences?
A: There were NO evidences ever!
Q: They said there were, is it true?
A: No evidences were true! see http://www.drdino.com/
Q: Do you think evolution is science?
A: Never it has been a science. First of all, it defies common sense, since most of the "discoveries of missing links" were fake!
Q: Then why is evolution is thaught in schools as facts?
A: Ask them! But I say that evolution should be taught not as a fact but only a theory with no evidences.
Q: What is the opposite of evolution?
A: Creation Science!
Q: Does the science have evidences?
A: There were many evidences! Just visit http://www.drdino.com/ to find out these evidences.
Q: Is there another theory besides evolution that is similar to both?
A: Yes, one is the Gap Theory, which says that there was a wide gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 on pre-Adamite rebellion, and the fall of Lucifer.
Q: Can the Gap Theory be true?
A: No, since in 1:2, it says that the earth was void.
So, do you believe in evolution or not?
Evolution really started in the 400 BC. At that time Aritotle, the father of Biology, was the only known person claiming it. So of course he taught it to Alexander the Great.
Evolution really became popular when Charles Darwin published his book claiming this theory, so scientists tried to find links and claim on this evollution, so Gregor Mendel's discoveries on Genetics was not given attention to scientists for 35 years!(ouch!) To tell you the truth, there were no scientific basis.
I tell you that evolution caused changes to mankind.
In World War II, Aldolf Hilter published his book, all about evolution, and thought that Germans were the supreme beings and Jews were inferior, so he killed about 6 million of them, and some were brought to America, but they didn't accept those Jews, also because they thought they were inferior! Also in World War II, Japanese, who were also exposed to evolution, thought of them being the supreme beings on a scientific basis of evolution! That is why they were so cruel to others during that time, because they thought they were the supreme beings!
In about 1958, 100 years after Darwin published his book, Americans thought of bringing evolution to all schools. Why? They thought it was the reason that the Soviets were the most advanced in astronomical technology. (What is building a sattelite got to do with evolution?) And aon 1963, they all rewrote the textbooks, adding more words on evolution, causing crimes to increase, and every bad statistic that you could imagine increased!(It's beacuse of the "evolution")
Q: Were there really evidences?
A: There were NO evidences ever!
Q: They said there were, is it true?
A: No evidences were true! see http://www.drdino.com/
Q: Do you think evolution is science?
A: Never it has been a science. First of all, it defies common sense, since most of the "discoveries of missing links" were fake!
Q: Then why is evolution is thaught in schools as facts?
A: Ask them! But I say that evolution should be taught not as a fact but only a theory with no evidences.
Q: What is the opposite of evolution?
A: Creation Science!
Q: Does the science have evidences?
A: There were many evidences! Just visit http://www.drdino.com/ to find out these evidences.
Q: Is there another theory besides evolution that is similar to both?
A: Yes, one is the Gap Theory, which says that there was a wide gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 on pre-Adamite rebellion, and the fall of Lucifer.
Q: Can the Gap Theory be true?
A: No, since in 1:2, it says that the earth was void.
So, do you believe in evolution or not?
Sat Sep 15, 2007 Reply New Discussion
I am a firm believer in evolution.
I have had many discussions with creationists, and the question that always makes their heads explode is:
"Why do children look like their parents? How do you explain genetic inheritance?"
By the way my favorite picture to show to religious fanatics to rile them up and make their heads explode with confusion is:
Irony and humor about religion are lost on most Christian fundamentalists, but sometimes someone will reply with:
"There is no god, therefore your atheism doesn't exist."
I have had many discussions with creationists, and the question that always makes their heads explode is:
"Why do children look like their parents? How do you explain genetic inheritance?"
By the way my favorite picture to show to religious fanatics to rile them up and make their heads explode with confusion is:
Irony and humor about religion are lost on most Christian fundamentalists, but sometimes someone will reply with:
"There is no god, therefore your atheism doesn't exist."
Sat Sep 15, 2007 Reply New Discussion
QUOTE (dserban)
I am a firm believer in evolution.I have had many discussions with creationists, and the question that always makes their heads explode is:
"Why do children look like their parents? How do you explain genetic inheritance?"
By the way my favorite picture to show to religious fanatics to rile them up and make their heads explode with confusion is:
Irony and humor about religion are lost on most Christian fundamentalists, but sometimes someone will reply with:
"There is no god, therefore your atheism doesn't exist."
Link: view Post: 111007
Not True!
You made yourself what you are right now.
So I reply to that picture...
QUOTE
You made yourself an atheist, and God want you to change right now. Stop believing in evolution!So who wants one? Just give me your so-called evidence, and I will counter them now!
Sun Sep 16, 2007 Reply New Discussion
I'm Christian, and I don't believe in evolution. However, I'm not going to get into a flaming war over it. All we'll end up doing is going in circles. No one will change what they believe, and it'll just be a way for everyone to let off steam. The way I see it, free choice means you can believe what you want, and when we die we'll see who was right.
But that picture dserban posted is really good! I love the sharp wit.
"There is no god, therefore your atheism doesn't exist." is also a great line.
But that picture dserban posted is really good! I love the sharp wit.
"There is no god, therefore your atheism doesn't exist." is also a great line.
Sun Sep 16, 2007 Reply New Discussion
I was strongly tempted to vote no because of the phraseology. Evolution is not something I believe in, in any sense like religion as if that was something I put my faith in. So I could equally say that I don't believe in evolution like I could say that I don't believe in Satan, and I don't believe in ghosts, and I don't believe in fortune telling, and I don't believe in spiritual healing. I believe in God (as a Christian) and that is where I put my faith. But this does not mean that I do not believe that evolution is a valid scientific theory or that I believe Satan does not exist or that I believe that ghosts do not exist or that I believe there fortune telling is just a scam or that I believe there is no spiritual healing or no value in praying for healing.
However I could say that I believe in science. I do not put any faith in it for my salvation (I look to God for that), because that is not what science offers. What science offers is a method to uncover a great deal of truth about the world around us and I think any reasonable person must recognize that science has had enormous success in revealing new and unexpected things about the universe we inhabit. Therefore I most definite put my faith in the methods of science as a source of truth about the things which it studies. This does not mean that I think the worldview it constructs is a complete one, BUT it is entirely INCONSISTENT with my understanding and faith in God that all the evidence around us should be constructed to deceive us. God gave us this world as a gift of love and He gave us a brain to help us enjoy that gift, and for those with their head screwed on straight AND the inclination of course, the enjoyment of the world through the use of the brain in science is cause to give that much more praise and glory to God.
I am therefore a theistic evolutionist who sees the theory of evolution as the picture of what happened when you cannot see the hand of God in it, just as to the atheist, the Christian and other religious people appears to have a mind virus because the atheist can not see the hand of God in their lives either. In other words, I also believe that God created all living things, BUT NOT that he designed them nor that he used some sort of medieval necromancy. IN FACT, I can say that I am a creation of God no less than Adam and Eve (which I believe are historical persons), while the Young Earth Creationist seems to believe that only Adam and Eve were created by God and the rest of us are only the product of biology (which seems rather peculiar to me). The creation of living things is not a work of design but of participation in the lives of the created just as the farmer waters and weeds, the shepherd guides and breeds, the teacher instructs and corrects, and the parent loves and encourages - all participating in the lives of the living things that they create, which are themselves participants in the process of their own creation.
SO to dserban's claim that, "God made me an atheist", and to Ronel's assertion, "Not true! You made yourself what you are right now", I say that you are both correct. To dserban, I say, jokes aside, God does not make all the choices and so you must also live with whatever the consequences may be of what you choose to become, fair enough? To Ronel, I say, God is the author of salvation, and it is His delight to lead us on whatever path He decides is best, don't you think?
However I could say that I believe in science. I do not put any faith in it for my salvation (I look to God for that), because that is not what science offers. What science offers is a method to uncover a great deal of truth about the world around us and I think any reasonable person must recognize that science has had enormous success in revealing new and unexpected things about the universe we inhabit. Therefore I most definite put my faith in the methods of science as a source of truth about the things which it studies. This does not mean that I think the worldview it constructs is a complete one, BUT it is entirely INCONSISTENT with my understanding and faith in God that all the evidence around us should be constructed to deceive us. God gave us this world as a gift of love and He gave us a brain to help us enjoy that gift, and for those with their head screwed on straight AND the inclination of course, the enjoyment of the world through the use of the brain in science is cause to give that much more praise and glory to God.
I am therefore a theistic evolutionist who sees the theory of evolution as the picture of what happened when you cannot see the hand of God in it, just as to the atheist, the Christian and other religious people appears to have a mind virus because the atheist can not see the hand of God in their lives either. In other words, I also believe that God created all living things, BUT NOT that he designed them nor that he used some sort of medieval necromancy. IN FACT, I can say that I am a creation of God no less than Adam and Eve (which I believe are historical persons), while the Young Earth Creationist seems to believe that only Adam and Eve were created by God and the rest of us are only the product of biology (which seems rather peculiar to me). The creation of living things is not a work of design but of participation in the lives of the created just as the farmer waters and weeds, the shepherd guides and breeds, the teacher instructs and corrects, and the parent loves and encourages - all participating in the lives of the living things that they create, which are themselves participants in the process of their own creation.
SO to dserban's claim that, "God made me an atheist", and to Ronel's assertion, "Not true! You made yourself what you are right now", I say that you are both correct. To dserban, I say, jokes aside, God does not make all the choices and so you must also live with whatever the consequences may be of what you choose to become, fair enough? To Ronel, I say, God is the author of salvation, and it is His delight to lead us on whatever path He decides is best, don't you think?
Fri Jan 4, 2008 Reply New Discussion
I believe in evolution, because it's the best prevailing theory at this point... just as I would have believed in the Continental Drift Theory before they came out with Plate Techtonics...
I think it's a quite viable explanation of speciation, taking into account genetics, which only now are we beginning to understand... mapping the genomes of animals, tracing roots, sifting garbage DNA, and finding intermingled species... (like the fruitfly and some bacteria)....
However, I'm not directly in defiance of most religions... just those who use stories to prove their theories...
I just can't see taking the bible too literally... even religious fans have come to terms with evolution as an explanation of the adaptability and survivability of life, as well as extinction, both slowly and in spurts...
I think it's lame to consider it in any way associated with "CHURCH" as in the "Separation of Church and State".... that would be similar to me arguing that space travel will lead us to the creators who lie in wait just outside a certain point in our universe, and would disrupt the experiment... so we must stop!
instead, I think we should pursue and teach what is commonly believed among majorities of scientists... I've never had much faith in missing links, because I think it's incredible enough that we've managed to find as much preserved remains as we have so far...
my kicker was always the amount of traces of inferior life we are left with in our own bodies....
Fetal Development: http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/K12/week4.htm
plus it seems very feasible given that our bodies are just an upper level organisation of parts that are found in many animals, especially when you trace back a speciation chart...
check out some of these topics:
http://cty.jhu.edu/cde/advancedplacement/d...iologyinfo.html
what i really think is the problem is our dependency on older or archaic myths that permeate our society through various traditions... i see this example more clearly looking into the middle east, where all but religion is suppressed and holding on to various beliefs leads to action with very little reason...
just some thoughts... although after watching apes murder other apes of the same species, i'm led to think one of two things... either they as well can choose... and they will be "judged"... or good and evil are just human terms to allow our society to develop in the way that the controllers want... mostly derived from religions of some sort...
I think it's a quite viable explanation of speciation, taking into account genetics, which only now are we beginning to understand... mapping the genomes of animals, tracing roots, sifting garbage DNA, and finding intermingled species... (like the fruitfly and some bacteria)....
However, I'm not directly in defiance of most religions... just those who use stories to prove their theories...
I just can't see taking the bible too literally... even religious fans have come to terms with evolution as an explanation of the adaptability and survivability of life, as well as extinction, both slowly and in spurts...
I think it's lame to consider it in any way associated with "CHURCH" as in the "Separation of Church and State".... that would be similar to me arguing that space travel will lead us to the creators who lie in wait just outside a certain point in our universe, and would disrupt the experiment... so we must stop!
instead, I think we should pursue and teach what is commonly believed among majorities of scientists... I've never had much faith in missing links, because I think it's incredible enough that we've managed to find as much preserved remains as we have so far...
my kicker was always the amount of traces of inferior life we are left with in our own bodies....
Fetal Development: http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/K12/week4.htm
plus it seems very feasible given that our bodies are just an upper level organisation of parts that are found in many animals, especially when you trace back a speciation chart...
check out some of these topics:
http://cty.jhu.edu/cde/advancedplacement/d...iologyinfo.html
what i really think is the problem is our dependency on older or archaic myths that permeate our society through various traditions... i see this example more clearly looking into the middle east, where all but religion is suppressed and holding on to various beliefs leads to action with very little reason...
just some thoughts... although after watching apes murder other apes of the same species, i'm led to think one of two things... either they as well can choose... and they will be "judged"... or good and evil are just human terms to allow our society to develop in the way that the controllers want... mostly derived from religions of some sort...
Sat Jan 5, 2008 Reply New Discussion
Well if we can clone animals already...... God ain't so big or smart anymore now is he .
It's a matter of time before we unlock everything from within the human body, it's a heck of a lot small and simpler than the universe (and were already exploring that......).
Though I'm not religious, but i'm not an aithiest either.
There were humans before any belief in gods of any kind existed, there were no real issues then, so why bother now?
As for evolution, I don't really know, theoretically though it is a good explanation, but there could be more to it, or we could be more off than we think, we'll find out one day
.It's a matter of time before we unlock everything from within the human body, it's a heck of a lot small and simpler than the universe (and were already exploring that......).
Though I'm not religious, but i'm not an aithiest either.
There were humans before any belief in gods of any kind existed, there were no real issues then, so why bother now?
As for evolution, I don't really know, theoretically though it is a good explanation, but there could be more to it, or we could be more off than we think, we'll find out one day
Sat Jan 5, 2008 Reply New Discussion
If you really want to debate Creationism and Evolution, I suggest that you do your research. For a direct debate, Scott wrote a wonderful book called Evolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction. It goes through both perspectives thoroughly pointing out the strengths and weaknesses. If you want to see the perspective of a Christian Evolutionist, Miller wrote a book called Finding Darwin's God. Although I find Miller to be a little weaker in his argument, its important to note that a Christian can still believe in Evolution. Your arguments against evolution are not only wrong, but weak. There is no evidence supporting evolution? The fossil record isn't evidence? Biogeography isn't evidence? Genetic makeup isn't evidence? Comparative anatomy isn't evidence? If you want to convince somebody please do some more research, because the argument supporting evolution is a lot stronger than you're portraying it, and if you get into a debate with somebody who really knows what they're talking about, they'll spin you in circles until you've proven their points for them.
Best of luck,
~*~linden
Best of luck,
~*~linden
Sun Jan 6, 2008 Reply New Discussion
QUOTE (linden)
its important to note that a Christian can still believe in Evolution.Link: view Post: 116245
Yes and one can even be an evangelical and still believe in evolution, but I admit the opposition is greater.
My church (e-Vin) is about to go through Focus on the Family's "The Truth Project" and I am afraid that this lecture series is going to say that "evolution" is one of those lies that undermine the Christian world view and I am going to be in the position of having to tell them that that isn't the lie. Evolution is a scientific theory and maybe it is true and maybe it is not, but the real lie is when people say something like, "science says that God did not create man", or "science says that God does not exist." Those are definitely lies, because the fact is that science NEVER says ANYTHING about God WHATSOEVER, and therefore any sentence starting with "science says that God..." is therefore a LIE.
There is a frank issue of priorities in this topic. Jesus says that if your hand comes between you and God then by all means cut it off, because your eternal life is more important. The point is that if evolution is getting in the way of your spiritual development and eternal life, then I cannot find fault in priorities that put God first and reject evolution for that reason. Evolution is only one tiny part of science, which is bursting at the seams with things that people have a very hard time understanding or believing - including things which the scientists themselves have a hard time with. So the frank truth is that there is a great deal in science that just isn't for everyone. I like evolutionary science, special and general relativity, quantum physics and unified field theory but am not going to insist that to understand truth one must understand these things because although they are helpful to me they are not helpful to everyone.
Sun Jan 6, 2008 Reply New Discussion
Of course they don't mention god, because they have nothing on the subject and never have lol.
I don't think they would be too worried about it either.
We have been given or somehow grown a brain to think with, no one really told us how to use it, so we use it and everything else as we see fit.
I don't think they would be too worried about it either
.We have been given or somehow grown a brain to think with, no one really told us how to use it, so we use it and everything else as we see fit.
Mon Jan 7, 2008 Reply New Discussion
I am a scientist. I am also a Christian. If someone were to try to put me in a category, the most appropriate one would probably be "intelligent design." I find it very helpful, in preserving a rational mind, to clearly define "evolution." Wikipedia begins the definition with In biology, evolution is a change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next. I find no conflict between that and Christianity. Lets look at some details.
There is an excellent book, Before the Dawn: Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors, which will leave you with no doubt that there is genetic variation in the human genome, and that it is traceable to natural mutations. However, it will tell you nothing about where the process started.
There were studies in the 1950's that showed an electrical discharge (e.g. lightning) in methane can produce amino acids. To my knowledge, there has been nothing since that has shown how these amino acids could naturally combine to form sufficiently complex DNA components and other necessary ingredients of life. It has also recently been shown that DNA is only a part of the story. The human body is made up of more bacteria than "human cells." (See Good Germs, Bad Germs for details.) Something got this process started. I believe the start came from an external intelligence.
It has been reported in many places that Marx and Hitler both felt free to murder millions of people because the "Theory of Evolution" convinced them there was no God, and therefore there was nothing to stop them. Whether that is true is of only academic interest. What they did is in an indelible historical record. What is important to us, is that we understand what the "Theory" does, and does not say, and not be misled by people who would use it to change our behavior.
Modern (and here I mean for the last million years or so) DNA and its mutations are now well understood. The origin of the earliest of this life-giving DNA and the many other necessary components of life is not at all clear, and "the Theory of Evolution" really has nothing to do with that.
There is an excellent book, Before the Dawn: Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors, which will leave you with no doubt that there is genetic variation in the human genome, and that it is traceable to natural mutations. However, it will tell you nothing about where the process started.
There were studies in the 1950's that showed an electrical discharge (e.g. lightning) in methane can produce amino acids. To my knowledge, there has been nothing since that has shown how these amino acids could naturally combine to form sufficiently complex DNA components and other necessary ingredients of life. It has also recently been shown that DNA is only a part of the story. The human body is made up of more bacteria than "human cells." (See Good Germs, Bad Germs for details.) Something got this process started. I believe the start came from an external intelligence.
It has been reported in many places that Marx and Hitler both felt free to murder millions of people because the "Theory of Evolution" convinced them there was no God, and therefore there was nothing to stop them. Whether that is true is of only academic interest. What they did is in an indelible historical record. What is important to us, is that we understand what the "Theory" does, and does not say, and not be misled by people who would use it to change our behavior.
Modern (and here I mean for the last million years or so) DNA and its mutations are now well understood. The origin of the earliest of this life-giving DNA and the many other necessary components of life is not at all clear, and "the Theory of Evolution" really has nothing to do with that.
Wed Jan 9, 2008 Reply New Discussion
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