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Discussion by onan with 17 Replies.
Last Update: November 17, 2006, 12:53 am | |||
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hallo! im a newbie in programming and anything game making related. im looking the BEST more COMPREHENSIVE tutorials for making a game from scratch. this is just a little project im delving into, but id like to know everything from modelmaking software to programming to actual completion. i see a lot of games and im like wth do they do that?! well, im tired of wondering and seeking to get involved in finding out how its done.
so far, ive been blindly surfing the net picking up little trial demos and such. in my arsenal are:
blender
something from daz studio
a free version of gamemaker 6
a free version of truespace
a c++ developing kit i got from a book on windows programming (again, I have no idea how to use it)
a java developers kit i got from a book
and ive got a horde of freeware stuff ive yet to even install.
basically, i have all this scattered information with no way of organising it into practical use. because i have no idea where to start. for instance, once a model is created how is it inserted into a game. so many questions.
basically, im looking to make a 3d game in which my character will fight the enemy. all of this is more for learning purposes and perhaps im biting off more than i can chew at this.
anyone willing to lend advice to a completely un-cultured ogre?
so far, ive been blindly surfing the net picking up little trial demos and such. in my arsenal are:
blender
something from daz studio
a free version of gamemaker 6
a free version of truespace
a c++ developing kit i got from a book on windows programming (again, I have no idea how to use it)
a java developers kit i got from a book
and ive got a horde of freeware stuff ive yet to even install.
basically, i have all this scattered information with no way of organising it into practical use. because i have no idea where to start. for instance, once a model is created how is it inserted into a game. so many questions.
basically, im looking to make a 3d game in which my character will fight the enemy. all of this is more for learning purposes and perhaps im biting off more than i can chew at this.
anyone willing to lend advice to a completely un-cultured ogre?
Well, you can't make a game just like that. If you wanted to do it alone, even if you knew, something, you would have major problems. Game making has so many aspects that you would need years to cover them all. So let's say you find a team that would help you, and that everyone in that team (except you) knows how to cover one of the nexcessary aspects. Then YOU would need to learn a lot and prepare yourself. Making a 2D game can be rather easy, but for a 3D one you would have to spend years learning the skill. So, I advise you to delay this project and start with something simple, and learn step by step.
that's logical. okay...let's start with character design and 3D modelling, since im big into illustration and graphics and such. what would be a decent best 3d modelling programme to begin with? I have a copy of blender (I think its one of those 40-day deals). basically, i lose it when it comes to adding textures and skin and clothes and such. i forget what's its called--surfacing? actually, now that i think of it, this may pertain to the designing forum.
so...how would i start simple?
and thanks for your input. your advise shall never go to waste.
cheers!
so...how would i start simple?
and thanks for your input. your advise shall never go to waste.
cheers!
Blender is good to begin with (heck, almost every single other 3D modeling software is PAID for, while Blender is absolutely free) and you can get some really nice results with it. Once you get the hang of the software it'll be easy as cutting butter with a hot knife. Mostly. 
I'd start by hand-drawing the characters/objects/whatever to figure out what's cool and then apply it in 3D.
Don't worry too much about texturing the models at first, make their geometry look good but not TOO good (because no computer in the world will be able to render a frame with high-polygon models all over the place in time to be playable). After you're done with the geometry, Photoshop some textures and play around to get them in place (there are tutorials covering this for sure). You won't use the textured model directly in your game but you'll be able to see if it fits nicely.
But, as pyost said, you gotta start in the bottom.
Write simple programs, like a command-line calculator and then evolve to things that are a bit more complex and you may use in the development of your project (I'd say like... sorting algorithms and stuff).
Don't only learn the language, but learn how to make efficient code. You'd be surprised how often a few code changes make a small yet complex program run in 3 seconds instead of 3 minutes.
Then, get a team by asking around in forums such as these, or teaming up with pals. Don't be discouraged by the fact programming can be (and IS most often) a hard process. Only experience will get you there.
If you care to make really small games just for fun, use GameMaker, but then try to replicate the game with your own code. You'll have fun AND learn at the same time!
I'd start by hand-drawing the characters/objects/whatever to figure out what's cool and then apply it in 3D.
Don't worry too much about texturing the models at first, make their geometry look good but not TOO good (because no computer in the world will be able to render a frame with high-polygon models all over the place in time to be playable). After you're done with the geometry, Photoshop some textures and play around to get them in place (there are tutorials covering this for sure). You won't use the textured model directly in your game but you'll be able to see if it fits nicely.
But, as pyost said, you gotta start in the bottom.
Write simple programs, like a command-line calculator and then evolve to things that are a bit more complex and you may use in the development of your project (I'd say like... sorting algorithms and stuff).
Don't only learn the language, but learn how to make efficient code. You'd be surprised how often a few code changes make a small yet complex program run in 3 seconds instead of 3 minutes.
Then, get a team by asking around in forums such as these, or teaming up with pals. Don't be discouraged by the fact programming can be (and IS most often) a hard process. Only experience will get you there.
If you care to make really small games just for fun, use GameMaker, but then try to replicate the game with your own code. You'll have fun AND learn at the same time!
onan, as pyost and KazDoran said, there is a lot that is involved in building a 3d game. One cannot do all of the tasks that need to be done for making a 3d game even if one knows almost all of the tasks.
For example, consider my case. I was (and am) a crazy game addict with aspiration of building a game. But I was lucky to do some research around and not jump right in investing money and effort and time in it, because I found that it takes more than that. It takes a team of people who are skilled in things (that pyost listed), who give the game to the outside world as one package.
When we say this, we have to note that the outside world has to accept what you have to give. That is, there has to be a market for that. Now, what would a target market be like when it contemplates on buying a game - I consider that they would buy something these days, that they have a general feel about.
There is a market for games based on Lord of the Rings. Same is the case for all the games based on Harry Potter, Star Wars, and others like that. Then there are some, that have created a world because, they were in the market from the very begeinning. This is the case you see in World Of Warcraft that Blizzard is running now. It started of as a strategy game (Warcraft), and then had some sequels (Warcraft II and Warcraft III), and then they did not need anything else to put their World of Warcraft game. They already had a world that a community had accepted.
So, if you are seriously into this, you may consider world building. (As I have mentioned the same in my other post - link). Now, if after all my rambling, you are interested in world building, mention it and I may post an explanation on it.
For example, consider my case. I was (and am) a crazy game addict with aspiration of building a game. But I was lucky to do some research around and not jump right in investing money and effort and time in it, because I found that it takes more than that. It takes a team of people who are skilled in things (that pyost listed), who give the game to the outside world as one package.
When we say this, we have to note that the outside world has to accept what you have to give. That is, there has to be a market for that. Now, what would a target market be like when it contemplates on buying a game - I consider that they would buy something these days, that they have a general feel about.
There is a market for games based on Lord of the Rings. Same is the case for all the games based on Harry Potter, Star Wars, and others like that. Then there are some, that have created a world because, they were in the market from the very begeinning. This is the case you see in World Of Warcraft that Blizzard is running now. It started of as a strategy game (Warcraft), and then had some sequels (Warcraft II and Warcraft III), and then they did not need anything else to put their World of Warcraft game. They already had a world that a community had accepted.
So, if you are seriously into this, you may consider world building. (As I have mentioned the same in my other post - link). Now, if after all my rambling, you are interested in world building, mention it and I may post an explanation on it.
stay away from gamemaker, its useless, well imo anyway.
You will need to know:
A language such as directX or openGL
i know directx is based on c++ so it would be a good idea to learn that too.
Then you need to make graphics.
I suggest photoshop for that.
Also you need to have a good undestanding of physics because that is important in games.
i suggest you read a book:
windows game programming gurus (something like that)
its pretty good at teaching you how to make games
You will need to know:
A language such as directX or openGL
i know directx is based on c++ so it would be a good idea to learn that too.
Then you need to make graphics.
I suggest photoshop for that.
Also you need to have a good undestanding of physics because that is important in games.
i suggest you read a book:
windows game programming gurus (something like that)
its pretty good at teaching you how to make games
QUOTE (HellFire121)
stay away from gamemaker, its useless, well imo anyway.
You will need to know:
A language such as directX or openGL
i know directx is based on c++ so it would be a good idea to learn that too.
Then you need to make graphics.
I suggest photoshop for that.
Also you need to have a good undestanding of physics because that is important in games.
i suggest you read a book:
windows game programming gurus (something like that)
its pretty good at teaching you how to make games
Link: view Post: 73818
Firstly, DirectX and OpenGL are not languages. They are programming APIs that contain functionality to add 2D/3D graphics (and more stuff in the case of DirectX).
Next, DirectX and OpenGL are most likely to be coded in C++, but it doesn't "base" them on the language. If you search, you'll find you can use OpenGL on Scheme, for example. It's nice to use C++ to use them, though, most material you find uses it, and most people develop their games on C/C++.
And again "images" != "graphics" please don't mistake both. Sure they're connected, but they aren't the same thing.
Most important than knowing physics is knowing maths in general. Helps you understand how graphical APIs work. Matricial algebra is the kind of math you're likely to see more often.
And don't read a book. Read loads of them.
(Oh and code something too.)Sorry if it felt a bit rough, but I'm a bit moody right now and mis-information (although I believe unintentional) seriously gets on my nerves.
Hallo, mates! Remember me? Sorry it's been a such a while (responsibilities and all that). Anyway, an update: I used the gamemaker tutorial to create a game. And even though I was pretty much copying the actions of another, I had a ball! I also learnt (from the makers of gamemaker) that gamemaker isn't really very good for 3d games. Not a problem since, yes, I should indeed start from the bottom. Currently, I'm looking learn the GML coding with the hopes of building a single 2d game, to do just as was advised above: to learn how to code. (BTW, I'd love to learn how to mod existing games, but that's down the road a bit--after I learn coding.)So, I finished the little tutorial. Now, I'm like...okay what now? Shall I attempt to construct a simple 2d game on my own? Where do I start? Character development isn't a problem because I have the characters done up. World creation can help. (Vyoma, yes, a post on world making would be very helpful.)
But, I guess these questions are a bit premature, since I've yet to actually sit down an see just what the coding can do. I'm going to take apart the game I made and look at its coding. Funny, when I younger that's how I learnt a bit about BASIC. (Ctrl+Break a programme, then list its coding.)
Anyway, thank you all for your advice and replies. I very much appreciate them. I'll definitely be doing a lot of reading the next few days.
Thanks again!
Cheers!
Its cool that you are taking on this project. So many people seem to go "OMG I WANT TO MAKE A VIDEOGAME!" without realizing that's similar to saying "WOW I WANT TO BUILD A CAR!" and not really thinking that there is alot involved with it. When most people start seeing that programming actually requires some time to learn and how many aspects of game design there are they shy away and move onto a new project, but its nice to see someone actually sticking with it. Personally I've never delved into game design... I do programming in school and for my current job but never really any game stuff, so good luck with it. Regardless you'll learn alot along the way no matter the outcome!
I agree. It's great to see someone going through with it. I'd like to attempt it maybe sometime in the future. Interesting topic. Keep us updated with your progess.
uh well... i think otherwise...
game making is just a matter of creativity. To start of with gaming, no need to jump to DirectX or OpenGL. Just get hold of a Gaming SDK/Engine, I use 3D State. I suggest using 3d state with Visual Basic, because its jsut so simple and easy to code in VB.
Also I recommend you to use the 3D models available on the net already. 3D State comes with a World Builder, where you can build worlds by just dragging and dropping 3d models. U can import that world into your scene by just one statement and then position your characters.
The engine comes with prebuilt samples which are worth checking out. It comes with a FPS example and a great Car Driving example. The trainyard map of Counter strike is also demonstrated as an example.
Comes with wonderful documentation. I must try for all gamers.
game making is just a matter of creativity. To start of with gaming, no need to jump to DirectX or OpenGL. Just get hold of a Gaming SDK/Engine, I use 3D State. I suggest using 3d state with Visual Basic, because its jsut so simple and easy to code in VB.
Also I recommend you to use the 3D models available on the net already. 3D State comes with a World Builder, where you can build worlds by just dragging and dropping 3d models. U can import that world into your scene by just one statement and then position your characters.
The engine comes with prebuilt samples which are worth checking out. It comes with a FPS example and a great Car Driving example. The trainyard map of Counter strike is also demonstrated as an example.
Comes with wonderful documentation. I must try for all gamers.
QUOTE (KazDoran)
Blender is good to begin with (heck, almost every single other 3D modeling software is PAID for, while Blender is absolutely free)
Link: view Post: 73677
Blender may be a good thing to start with but I find Anim8or is a realy good free 3D program. I've never used blender before so it might be better but i realy think anim8or is great for beginners.
QUOTE (CaptainRon)
game making is just a matter of creativity. To start of with gaming, no need to jump to DirectX or OpenGL. Just get hold of a Gaming SDK/Engine, I use 3D State.
Link: view Post: 76241
Well, yeah, I kinda agree. But I'd always prefer creating my own engine to using a pre-made one. If it were open-source, well I wouldn't care so much, but I like having full control over the power and flexibility of the engine, that's why I like working directly with the graphical API.
But that's just me.
Several times I found my games throwing away segmentation faults because... well... let's say I was pushing that engine up too much.
Some bugs are really a bummer to find and an ever greater one to fix. I now recall a bug on the SDL library for example. If you run the game fullscreen you can't render text contained on a char* it'll just blow off! You have to go windowed mode or use a fixed char array instead... Something you can't live with on your game sometimes.
By using custom made engines you can [try to] circumvent some of these obstacles, but no doubt about it, they make the development way longer and harder.
By the way, I guess I'd never use VB to code a serious attempt at a game. The code gets really large really fast and it becomes unmanageable. I prefer C/C++.
Well, you can try to get the new summer class at gameprogramming.org , i just dont have the time to finish it 
you should start really some, dont go 3d without background, trust me, ive seen thousands do the same mistake, start 2d, in fact if youll ever make money alone (independent game maker) youll have to face the facts of shareware market, and those are simple -> 2d is the rule !
start with tic-tac-toe, and then make pong, then make minesweeper and build up from there till you have a side scroller, like mario or a shmup,
a good book to get would be,
Beginning C++ Game Programming (Game Development Series) by Michael Dawson (Paperback - May 13, 2004)
and there is a new one that i havent read yet,
Game Programming In C++ : Start To Finish (Game Development Series) by Erik Yuzwa (Paperback - Jan 11, 2006)
but if you really want 3d, you can have something cool in less then 10 minuts, do this:
download this trial ---> http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=trial
after instalation, activate the trial, then open the ide and type this code(you myght have to start a new project but thats easy and intuitive);
sync on
sync rate 30
set display mode 1024,768,32
make object cube 1,10
make camera 1
position camera 1,300,300,-200
point camera 1,0,0,0
do
control_player(1,3)
sync
loop
function control_player(obj,speed#)
if upkey()=1 then move object obj,3
if rightkey()=1 then yrotate object obj,wrapvalue(object angle y(obj)+speed#)
if leftkey()=1 then yrotate object obj,wrapvalue(object angle y(obj)-speed#)
endfunction
pretty cool hun ?
heres a very good wiki about game engines, you should pick one from those:
http://gpwiki.org/index.php/Game_Engines#Engine_Overview
you should start really some, dont go 3d without background, trust me, ive seen thousands do the same mistake, start 2d, in fact if youll ever make money alone (independent game maker) youll have to face the facts of shareware market, and those are simple -> 2d is the rule !
start with tic-tac-toe, and then make pong, then make minesweeper and build up from there till you have a side scroller, like mario or a shmup,
a good book to get would be,
Beginning C++ Game Programming (Game Development Series) by Michael Dawson (Paperback - May 13, 2004)
and there is a new one that i havent read yet,
Game Programming In C++ : Start To Finish (Game Development Series) by Erik Yuzwa (Paperback - Jan 11, 2006)
but if you really want 3d, you can have something cool in less then 10 minuts, do this:
download this trial ---> http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=trial
after instalation, activate the trial, then open the ide and type this code(you myght have to start a new project but thats easy and intuitive);
CODE
sync on
sync rate 30
set display mode 1024,768,32
make object cube 1,10
make camera 1
position camera 1,300,300,-200
point camera 1,0,0,0
do
control_player(1,3)
sync
loop
function control_player(obj,speed#)
if upkey()=1 then move object obj,3
if rightkey()=1 then yrotate object obj,wrapvalue(object angle y(obj)+speed#)
if leftkey()=1 then yrotate object obj,wrapvalue(object angle y(obj)-speed#)
endfunction
pretty cool hun ?
heres a very good wiki about game engines, you should pick one from those:
http://gpwiki.org/index.php/Game_Engines#Engine_Overview
Never really went into Darkbasic and stuff like that. Mostly because I'm a developer myself, and as far as I know, companies don't really go much for that kind of stuff. I stick to classic languages, but no doubt Darkbasic can be good for people who want to start off at games.
thanx for all
want to make a game, spend time. i suggest learn javascript, then java and go from there. quick and easy road is ussually only .exe which means nobody will play it cuz no1 will download it
Try Python (python.org), it very good for beginers.
For game developing there is good library PyGame, which is a wrapper around SDL, and responsive comunity.
This is a really good start.
For game developing there is good library PyGame, which is a wrapper around SDL, and responsive comunity.
This is a really good start.
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