God's Role In Natural Disasters

hashbang

Jan 3 2005, 09:48 PM

Hey Guys,
To kick off this forum ... I found this article while reading the paper this morning. It really amazed me that modern day religious leaders suggest that the Tsunami disaster was a message from God ... almost like the Sodom and Gomora (unsure of spelling) story!

I think this is nature pure and simple. As a matter of fact, I actually liked the buddist response best of all of them. I can come closer to believing in harmonic/karmic forces more than the 'hand of god sending us messages' line. To move off topic a bit, I even see the Buddist monks explaination come close to scientific Chaos Theory.

What are your thoughts??

cheers
hashbang

QUOTE

God's role has clerics divided
The Age - Melbourne
By Barney Zwartz
Religion Editor
January 4, 2005

In churches, mosques and temples around Australia, as worshippers struggle to make sense of the tsunami disaster in south Asia, their religious leaders have no glib answers.

But they were divided about God's responsibility yesterday, with some seeing it as a divine warning and others as simply an act of nature.

Sydney's controversial Anglican Dean, Phillip Jensen, suggested it was God's warning that judgement was coming, a view echoed yesterday by Melbourne's most prominent Muslim leader, Sheikh Fehmi Naji al-Imam of the Preston mosque.
"We don't understand God's will but we accept it," Sheikh Fehmi said.
"Islam says disaster comes from time to time to warn people and shake them up, make them realise they have left God too far behind."

Dean Jensen was unavailable yesterday, but South Sydney Bishop Robert Forsyth amplified his remarks.
"Everything that happens is under the sovereignty of God, yes. But did God say 'I'll send a tsunami today'? No. This event, though terrible, is a natural event," Bishop Forsyth said.

Melbourne Anglican Archbishop Peter Watson said the Christian response was to reach out with compassion and care, but it would be presumptuous to speak for God. "The prophets of old were able to say 'thus says the Lord', and their words were put into holy writ - and they said some unpopular things - but we can't stand where they stood."

Rabbi Mordechai Gutnick, president of the Organisation of Rabbis of Australia, said to question God was to question with our finite minds His infinite wisdom. "What we consider tragedies are part of His plan, and the final result is what counts."
He said when Moses asked God why He allowed the Jews to suffer in slavery, God replied that He revealed himself in different ways. "The Jewish people in the crucible of Egyptian slavery found the basis of what we now call the Judeo-Christian ethic."

Buddhist leader Venerable Lama Choedak Rinpoche also suggested the good might eventually outweigh the bad.

He said the tsunami was part of the collective karma of the universe, and could be a catalyst for peace, harmony and generosity.

"To us it seems very big, but when people sweep their driveway they kill hundreds of ants without calling it a tsunami. That kind of suffering and turbulence are happening all the time, and Buddha's explanation is purification of negative karma. It is not the karma of those individuals or punishment by a super-being."

shaldengeki

Jan 3 2005, 11:42 PM

To be honest, I really don't think we should be focusing on why this happened right now- what needs our attention is how we can remedy the crisis currently facing us. I mean, while people are dying in Thailand, we're sitting here asking whether some deity (that may or may not exist) did this because it wants to warn us, of all people.

To be honest, I found the Rabbi's response to be most disturbing. He's trying to tell us that we shouldn't care about what happens now, as long as things turn out well in the end. This can be translated to "the ends justify the means", which is how many rather infamous people in history have taken power.

hashbang

Jan 3 2005, 11:44 PM

Hey Mate,
Good point!

cheers
hashbang

MajesticTreeFrog

Jan 4 2005, 01:26 AM

Thanks hashbang for setting the forum up, cause I have been way too busy with work. Anyway, beyond the good point made by shaldengeki, I always am amazed at the arrogance displayed by religious leaders of any stripe when they declare such events as a 'message' as this usually implies that said leader somehow knows what that god wants, as well as being sort of insulting. As if any being like that couldn't just call everyone on the phone and tell em what's what.

Soleq

Jan 4 2005, 02:22 AM

I most closely align myself with Eastern philosophy, and I'm quite pleased to see how the Bhuddists are reacting to the tsunami. As with anything in this world, there is a balance. Out of the immediate pain and destruction will come a time of unity. Complete nations that were once at war with each other (or itself) are now setting aside those differences to promote survival. Sure, the occasional fight may break out, but in the end, this is a time of rebirth.

It's hard for me to even contimplate a divine act such as this. I find many flaws in the majority of western religions, and this would certainly be one of them.

wanhafizi

Jan 4 2005, 04:24 AM

do you believe in god?

do you really know what's god is?

do you really think human are so brilliant now that they can outdo god?

or does god really exist?

do you believe that you know everyhing?

There are millions things on the earth that still uncovered by HomoSapiens, but they already think that they are so brilliant. That's why they think god is not needed.

You think you have seen everything? Ghost?, Sprit?, Miricles?, Psyshic?, DeeJavoo? Magic? just to name a few.

MajesticTreeFrog

Jan 4 2005, 06:18 AM

QUOTE(wanhafizi @ Jan 4 2005, 12:24 AM)

um, ok.... I am not sure how that directly relates to the discussion...

In any case, that is sort of my point. ANY talk of knowing God tends to be an arrogant viewpoint. Io God needed? I am not sure how exactly to answer that question. Needed for what? Morality? I am not a believer, neither are most Buddhists/Taoists/etc. Most atheists and agnostics lead what I consider to be rather moral lives..... So, clearly not(at least by my reconning)

For explaining horrible things? I hope not, that seems more suited to devils to me, and I see no reason why there must be a god for there to be devils(and no I don't believe in devils, just to clear that up).

So then, please explain what we need god for in this context(ie, none of that salvation stuff, because that is not relevant, not to mention arrogant that you know through whatever source how or why one is 'saved'. If you didn't intend to go there my appologies)

As for natural disasters in general, why is it hard conclude that plates move, and that therefore we should do what we can about it and learn from our mistakes with regards to warning systems and such, while of course cleaning up the mess(which is what we are really doing now, I just wonder why others bother to bring god into it)

OpaQue

Jan 4 2005, 07:19 AM

I believe in some power which supports me, encourages me and calms me down whenever I go mad. I have faith in that power, which helps me when i m in the worst situation, which saves me from an accident within inches... The chill runs down my spine and then assures me that I am alive and everything is fine. I call that God. Nomatter what you do, whom you follow, what you preach.. Just make sure that when you pray, you have faith. Else don't do it at all.

Besides, a week back, I read in papers that Australian or American Scientists have proved that the people who pray live longer than those who dont.

-=Wrighty=-

Jan 4 2005, 09:47 AM

I think it was just nature as there was hundreds of thousands of innocent people who died and only a small number on them, if any would have done something bad.

wanhafizi

Jan 4 2005, 03:23 PM

religion/god are hard topics to explain. it cannot be discussed easily.
but for me, believe that god exists.
no body can prove god exists, but still, no body could also explain weird stuff that r happening in this world, but they do happen.
like OpaQue said, god is something we hold on to...
that's just my opinion, im not forcing anyone to agree with it...

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CaptainCanuck

Jun 4 2008, 12:29 AM

QUOTE(hashbang @ Jan 3 2005, 05:48 PM)

Those that say God plays a role in natural disasters are assuming God was made in our image and likeness and not the other way around. In other words, they assume God has human characteristics and, if that is so, a natural disaster would be God's way of showing both His displeasure with us, as well as His might and power. A little vain don't you think? I believe that God has a master plan and He had put that plan in motion in the very beginning. Natural disasters may be a warning to us that things are not unfolding as they should. God is not taking an active role in these disasters but He is not going to save us from suffering the consequences of our actions. The biggest disaster of all is the mess we have made of the home He has given us. We have cut down forests too numberous to count and wonder why there are mudslides. We have burned fossil fuels for centuries and wonder why our air is polluted. We have hunted animals to extinction and over-fished the oceans, lakes and rivers. We have reproduced at an alarming rate without any thought of the poor quality of life that will be faced by future generations. Does God need to have a hand in the creation of natural disasters? Certainly no, we are creating them oursleves.

CaptainCanuck

Sohaib

Feb 15 2008, 04:20 PM

well...I believe that natural disasters are some sort of signals from God. disasterz happen to remind us that we all are mortal and we have to go back to Our God and we are answerable for our good and bad deeds.so yes .... tsunami and other disasters are happen to remind us that we are nothing but a human created by God and we could have juzz died in this disaster so we should start preparing for hereafter and should not forget asking forgiveness from God.

Chesso

Aug 11 2007, 11:43 PM

I don't know much about the god aspect, I mean it's a bit like the american/indians (so you know I don't mean India, indians), they just danced till it rained.......

We know it's most likely going to rain, some time or another, and we also know natural disasters happen one time or another, so anyone can say it's some message, or special power.

But it's not really that important as to why it happened, unless the frequency of these events kick up, then you need to wonder lol.

Dominus

Aug 10 2007, 08:24 PM

It's completely understandable why people would think that god would create catastrophies as a sign to warn, or as a punishment to man since "god is the creator of all things". However, the way I understand it from my study of the bible and from the teachings of many theological scholars, once god finished creating the universe and all that is in it, he rested and in the beginning, man was given authority, but with responsibility. God also gave mankind dominion over the earth and finally gave man free will to love or hate and do as he pleased. So in reality, god created all things good.

"God saw that creation was good." "And God saw that it was good." "God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good."

http://www.seekerschurch.org/sermons/19980419.htm

Why would god, the perfect almighty being, the creator of all that is good, want to destroy it all. He wouldn't. God allows "bad" things to happen; God does not cause them to happen. Most "bad" things which happen do so because God gives a radical freedom to God's people; we are free people, not puppets on a string.

"Therefore, we might best respond by saying that God does not Will "bad" things to happen in life. Rather, "bad" things happen in the freedom that comes with the gift of life. When "bad" things happen to any of God's children, God is grieved and suffers with us, experienced most vividly in the hurt and suffering of Jesus the Christ for all humanity. Any "bad" thing which happens is never the last word. Rather, God is the deepest and last word, and that word is love and eternal life with God."

--The Rev. Dr. Douglass M. Bailey

All of this being said, the true question here should be this; Why does god allow bad things to happen?, or why doesn't he stop them? I mean, doesn't it seem to stand to reason that the perfect, almighty being would want to stop bad things from happening.

It's true. Nothing would make god happier than to put an end to evil and suffering. However, if he did such a thing, wouldn't he be breaking his promise to man? He most certainly would. Here's why. It all boils down to the god given free will that we all enjoy so much. The freedom thay many of us would fight and die for, and many of us have. It is that freedom which causes everything on earth to happen the way that it does. God does not take pleasure in it yet he is fulfilling his promise to us and to himself.

What good is there and what pleasure can there really be in making everyone do "what is right"? Can you make someone love you? Can you beat them into submission to do what's right? No you can't? They will do and feel as they will, otherwise it's just not real!

In closing I'd just like to say that it is because of this freedom of choice that the world is in the shape that it is in today. You know as well as I do that man caused pollution and the climate change that ultimately is causing many of the natural disasters including the sunami of Thailand.

Here are a few more links where I obtained a few quotes to support my opinions and so that you may further investigate for yourselves that these are not just opinions of my own but they are truly rational and believable conclusions and teachings of many.

http://www.explorefaith.org/world.html

http://lookinguntojesus.net/ata20060312.htm

http://www.pennyparker2.com/godgaveman.html

Dominus

Rayxzerox

Aug 6 2007, 04:20 AM

*sigh* An all powerful being who told US "thou shall not kill" who uses his power to one: tell people to kill, and two: make nature kill. Can someone tell me how this makes sense? A perfect being, who is also a hypocrite? Not buying it, I hope YOU aren't either.

God's Role In Natural Disasters - God's warning or Nature at work?

God's Role In Natural Disasters - God's warning or Nature at work?

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