Quoted Posts - ...who can get away with it?

Can the moderators please agree on what the rules are for using and not using quotes?

On one hand we have yordan penalising members for not using quotes in topics where they copy-pasted their own work from other sites.
Refer to thread here: http://www.astahost.com/gimp-animation-tutorial-t19451.html

On the other hand we have xboxrulz, another moderator, doing the same thing and replying... ...when questioned about it.
Refer to thread here: http://www.astahost.com/new-macbook-macbook-pros-t19503.html

Which way is it?
A) Should xboxrulz be made to go through the numerous "quoting himself" contributions he has made and correctively put quotes around them all?
B) Should yordan stand corrected and take back the quotes he put around other members threads?
C) ...or should AstaHost have one rule for moderators, but another for members in regards to what is appropriate postings?

Please let's reach a consensus in this. It affects whether I'm going to feel up to writing tutorials for AstaHost or just have them for other places.

 

 

 

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I go by the simple rule that a moderator who deals with that post has made the correct decision.

My general rule is that if the exact post is found elsewhere, then you must QUOTE it--even if you wrote it yourself or referring to your own work. I view this as double dipping on hosting credits. If this is allowed, I can post 300 pages of my graduate school's research paper...etc, right? It's not right.

If you post in AstaHost first and then to another place, should you QUOTE? My answer is no, but the member who posted will be on my watch list. It's exploiting the loop-hole and still gaining dishonest credits.

We, as moderators of AstaHost, do not make specific, individual rules to dominate AstaHost members. Instead each moderator moderates post according to OpaQue's guidelines--that is, if you are not contributing quality and original post your post will be moderated. And how to moderate each post depends on each moderator.

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I made my argument here. If that is still unacceptable, I will update and follow BuffaloHELP's version of the rules and abide to it by altering my post when I get the time.

http://www.astahost.com/quoting-oneself-debate-t19508.html

xboxrulz

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I used to write C# tutorials over here. I am pretty sure that I had read somewhere in the forum, that we could copy tutorials from other sites, provided they were our own. So, I started writing them for my site maxotek.net first and copying them back over here. Eventually, I was warned by BuffalloHELP regarding the originality of the tutorials and ever since I haven't copied any.

I must say that it is not fair to get any points for something that has already been indexed by the search engines at some other site. Google tends to penalize sites which copy content and that means the chances of visitors coming to astahost will be less. We shouldn't forget that it is from these visitors that astahost derives its revenue and as such our posts are the payment for the web hosting.

Going back and puting quotes around those tutorials would probably result in me having a negative credit of 200. I did that when I was unaware of the rule. Because of all the confusion this causes to new members, I think it should be mentioned in the tutorial rules.

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I'm by no means a moderator or anything, but personally, I think people should be able to freely quote themselves without "quotes" and thus gain the points for the content.

Sure, if they can quote from just anywhere (not their own material) google-searching for new things to add in as if it's their own then AstaHost forums would become a mess of "repeated content that came up first on google" and it's blatant plagiarism... but then if we are allowed to get points for quoting ourselves... that's very different.

Firstly, it is our own work, and by quoting ourselves we are thereby giving AstaHost our permission to host our intellectual content... which is what AstaHost wants isn't it? To establish a talented community of members.

Secondly, if I post my own content, it's because I think it's not likely to come up within those first few pages of a common google search. Anyone who's studies the science of "making your site popular" knows the dynamics of this. Posting what you find in google is bad, because if you can find it, so could anyone; google has given it a high priority for the search words. On the other hand, your own material is not as likely to be so high in google and therefore will not likely have been seen by any AstaHost members (unless they happened to be googling for your name or an exact phrase you used... not likely at all). In short, by posting your material here, you are more than likely making it available to AstaHost members who would not otherwise have found it.

Thirdly, I think that by allowing people to repost their own... quality... content, it's likely to reduce the amount of spam (crap posts) going around the forum. The number of times I've seen nonsense replies that don't really add much to a thread... nothing useful anyway. It's obvious they are wanting their postcount to rise... so wouldn't it be better to let them post something more interesting they have done even if it was something they did a year back? As long as it's still exciting material for today.

Fourthly, if it is my material... and my own material... I'm only going to have a dozen or so large essays to share tops... before I run out. Then I've got the limited points I would get for it and would be on a level field. Not the same as when people repost internet searches is it? The key difference is that the material really is my own.

Plagiarism (of someone else's work) should be stopped.
Crap content should be nailed. (Can be subjective I know, but there have been some good spam identifiers suggested).
...but quoting oneself? Hey, if it's your material I think that should be encouraged.

Small idea: Might be a bit of extra trouble, but if moderators want to break the confusion (and perhaps give half points for a "self quote")... why not make a separate "self quote" button? That way we could actually get something for quoting ourselves to this forum?

That's an interesting point though.

Personally, I'd just like to see self quoting as not needed; given they are our own words.

 

 

 

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You hit the nail right on the head.

OpaQue and I had a lengthy discussion as how to moderate the forum. And among other things, moderators are to focus on Topic title, Content type, Spelling/Grammar, and contribution rate (how many people are actively replying to a topic). The orders are important as listed.

AstaHost's only bread and butter is to be indexed by search engines such as Google. And in order to be indexed OpaQue stresses on quality contents. OpaQue generalized "quality content" by covering original article as well. So anything that can help SEO of AstaHost is what's best for AstaHost. To continue free web hosting, no ads (<--- you'll see that I use it in this format all the time because it's the forum's keyword and for SEO) this forum must be visible by search engines. Otherwise, OpaQue will suffer financially to keep AstaHost alive. We don't want to think about the day OpaQue can't pay for things that we enjoy it for free...right?

So, it's up to each of us to see what is good for AstaHost. And it's up to us to take responsibility to drive AstaHost to where it should be--continuing to provide free web hosting, no ads. Some of us are here only for the free web hosting, no ads. Some of us are here because of the forum discussions and the hosting was just the byproduct. Whatever the case that drawn us together, we should really take ownership of this place and cultivate it like it was my own. You don't crap where you eat. This is not to say or accuse anyone or anything.

True community police themselves in harmony. The moderators of AstaHost are here to enforce basic guidelines. They were picked by administrators for their ability to follow OpaQue's guidelines. It may not seem like in unison, but if they were they would be robots with one singular thought. And that would be so dull. The forum provides REPORT feature to alert moderators' attention. We post topics to discuss various issues that deal with us personally, and us collectively. And as we clash with one another in intellectual level one day we can truly form a true internet community.

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I have to say that I come down on xboxrulz’s side on this one only because I am guilty of quoting myself. If the yordan rules are upheld then I shouldn’t be saying this but I regularly double post on both my webpage and this site if applicable. My argument is that I usually put a lot of time and effort into my posts and I see most of them as being for the greater good of the Internet at large. I try to cite all of my references and if I do quote from a different source then I put that in the quote box. I would like to think that the posts that I make are held up to the same journalistic standard as you would find in a newspaper.

That being said I don’t think that you are losing any Google standing by me double posting. One of the consistent top referrers to my website is Astahost. Over the last few months the top link from Astahost has been Hacking Yahoo! Messenger (http://www.astahost.com/info.php/hacking-yahoo-messenger_t17806.html). At the same time I have had almost no direct links to my site where the same article is posted in my forum. This means that when someone types “hacking yahoo messenger” into Google, they are first presented with the Astahost article because Astahost has a higher PageRank and then if they are still interested in learning more they will follow the link to my website. I see both Astahost and myself winning in this scenario because Astahost gets the ad revenue from my “expertise” and I get my own referrals from Astahost.

Secondly not being able to double post would make Astahost a less attractive option for web hosting. I don’t post that often but like I said before I like to post quality content. After spending so much time composing an article it would just piss me off not to be able to also post it on Astahost for credit.

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I think it's wrong to quote something that is on another site as well. A way of looking at this is review sites that pay. They will not pay you if they find your review on any other site, because that means you are sending business elsewhere.

I feel that the same thing should be going on here.

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Besides that is the "original" timing definition.
I think that you must first post on astahost, in order to obtain credits. Then you can put this text on your own website without problem, because astahost has the anteriority. Exactly as in patents legislation.
If you posted something last year somewhere else, you cannot copy-paste it in astahost forum : it's old news, already published.
If no moderator sees it, be lucky.
Exactly like Buffalo said : imagine if he had simply copied somobody's work and put it in his graduate paper, he would not be graduated. I saw somebody putting copied texts in his graduation document, during the public review he was warned and finally he has not been graduated.
So, my thinking is that a tutorial text has first to be posted at astahost, in order to be valid.
And of course, here we need mods, some mods are kind, some others are not, such is life.
We will have an internal discussion in order to decide if we change this kind of rules.

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I guess we do need a review of these rules. In Yordan's word, I guess I fall under the "kind" one since I'm usually lenient (but doesn't mean I don't enforce it).

xboxrulz

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