 God's Role In Natural Disasters, God's warning or Nature at work? |
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 Jan 3 2005, 09:48 PM
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#1
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Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 7-December 04 From: australia Member No.: 1,640  |
Hey Guys,
To kick off this forum ... I found this article while reading the paper this morning. It really amazed me that modern day religious leaders suggest that the Tsunami disaster was a message from God ... almost like the Sodom and Gomora (unsure of spelling) story! I think this is nature pure and simple. As a matter of fact, I actually liked the buddist response best of all of them. I can come closer to believing in harmonic/karmic forces more than the 'hand of god sending us messages' line. To move off topic a bit, I even see the Buddist monks explaination come close to scientific Chaos Theory. What are your thoughts?? cheers hashbang QUOTE God's role has clerics divided
The Age - Melbourne By Barney Zwartz Religion Editor January 4, 2005 In churches, mosques and temples around Australia, as worshippers struggle to make sense of the tsunami disaster in south Asia, their religious leaders have no glib answers. But they were divided about God's responsibility yesterday, with some seeing it as a divine warning and others as simply an act of nature. Sydney's controversial Anglican Dean, Phillip Jensen, suggested it was God's warning that judgement was coming, a view echoed yesterday by Melbourne's most prominent Muslim leader, Sheikh Fehmi Naji al-Imam of the Preston mosque. "We don't understand God's will but we accept it," Sheikh Fehmi said. "Islam says disaster comes from time to time to warn people and shake them up, make them realise they have left God too far behind." Dean Jensen was unavailable yesterday, but South Sydney Bishop Robert Forsyth amplified his remarks. "Everything that happens is under the sovereignty of God, yes. But did God say 'I'll send a tsunami today'? No. This event, though terrible, is a natural event," Bishop Forsyth said. Melbourne Anglican Archbishop Peter Watson said the Christian response was to reach out with compassion and care, but it would be presumptuous to speak for God. "The prophets of old were able to say 'thus says the Lord', and their words were put into holy writ - and they said some unpopular things - but we can't stand where they stood." Rabbi Mordechai Gutnick, president of the Organisation of Rabbis of Australia, said to question God was to question with our finite minds His infinite wisdom. "What we consider tragedies are part of His plan, and the final result is what counts." He said when Moses asked God why He allowed the Jews to suffer in slavery, God replied that He revealed himself in different ways. "The Jewish people in the crucible of Egyptian slavery found the basis of what we now call the Judeo-Christian ethic." Buddhist leader Venerable Lama Choedak Rinpoche also suggested the good might eventually outweigh the bad. He said the tsunami was part of the collective karma of the universe, and could be a catalyst for peace, harmony and generosity. "To us it seems very big, but when people sweep their driveway they kill hundreds of ants without calling it a tsunami. That kind of suffering and turbulence are happening all the time, and Buddha's explanation is purification of negative karma. It is not the karma of those individuals or punishment by a super-being." |
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Jan 3 2005, 11:42 PM
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#2
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Member - Active Contributor  Group: [HOSTED] Posts: 90 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 1,565 |
To be honest, I really don't think we should be focusing on why this happened right now- what needs our attention is how we can remedy the crisis currently facing us. I mean, while people are dying in Thailand, we're sitting here asking whether some deity (that may or may not exist) did this because it wants to warn us, of all people.
To be honest, I found the Rabbi's response to be most disturbing. He's trying to tell us that we shouldn't care about what happens now, as long as things turn out well in the end. This can be translated to "the ends justify the means", which is how many rather infamous people in history have taken power. |
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Jan 3 2005, 11:44 PM
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#3
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 7-December 04 From: australia Member No.: 1,640 |
Hey Mate,
Good point! cheers hashbang |
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Jan 4 2005, 01:26 AM
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#4
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Super Member Group: Members Posts: 692 Joined: 25-November 04 Member No.: 1,523 |
Thanks hashbang for setting the forum up, cause I have been way too busy with work. Anyway, beyond the good point made by shaldengeki, I always am amazed at the arrogance displayed by religious leaders of any stripe when they declare such events as a 'message' as this usually implies that said leader somehow knows what that god wants, as well as being sort of insulting. As if any being like that couldn't just call everyone on the phone and tell em what's what.
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Jan 4 2005, 02:22 AM
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#5
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 145 Joined: 4-December 04 From: California Member No.: 1,608 |
I most closely align myself with Eastern philosophy, and I'm quite pleased to see how the Bhuddists are reacting to the tsunami. As with anything in this world, there is a balance. Out of the immediate pain and destruction will come a time of unity. Complete nations that were once at war with each other (or itself) are now setting aside those differences to promote survival. Sure, the occasional fight may break out, but in the end, this is a time of rebirth.
It's hard for me to even contimplate a divine act such as this. I find many flaws in the majority of western religions, and this would certainly be one of them. |
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Jan 4 2005, 04:24 AM
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#6
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 145 Joined: 13-December 04 Member No.: 1,734 |
do you believe in god?
do you really know what's god is? do you really think human are so brilliant now that they can outdo god? or does god really exist? do you believe that you know everyhing? There are millions things on the earth that still uncovered by HomoSapiens, but they already think that they are so brilliant. That's why they think god is not needed. You think you have seen everything? Ghost?, Sprit?, Miricles?, Psyshic?, DeeJavoo? Magic? just to name a few. |
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Jan 4 2005, 06:18 AM
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#7
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Super Member Group: Members Posts: 692 Joined: 25-November 04 Member No.: 1,523 |
QUOTE(wanhafizi @ Jan 4 2005, 12:24 AM) do you believe in god? do you really know what's god is? do you really think human are so brilliant now that they can outdo god? or does god really exist? do you believe that you know everyhing? There are millions things on the earth that still uncovered by HomoSapiens, but they already think that they are so brilliant. That's why they think god is not needed. You think you have seen everything? Ghost?, Sprit?, Miricles?, Psyshic?, DeeJavoo? Magic? just to name a few.  um, ok.... I am not sure how that directly relates to the discussion... In any case, that is sort of my point. ANY talk of knowing God tends to be an arrogant viewpoint. Io God needed? I am not sure how exactly to answer that question. Needed for what? Morality? I am not a believer, neither are most Buddhists/Taoists/etc. Most atheists and agnostics lead what I consider to be rather moral lives..... So, clearly not(at least by my reconning) For explaining horrible things? I hope not, that seems more suited to devils to me, and I see no reason why there must be a god for there to be devils(and no I don't believe in devils, just to clear that up). So then, please explain what we need god for in this context(ie, none of that salvation stuff, because that is not relevant, not to mention arrogant that you know through whatever source how or why one is 'saved'. If you didn't intend to go there my appologies) As for natural disasters in general, why is it hard conclude that plates move, and that therefore we should do what we can about it and learn from our mistakes with regards to warning systems and such, while of course cleaning up the mess(which is what we are really doing now, I just wonder why others bother to bring god into it) |
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Jan 4 2005, 07:19 AM
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#8
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Administrator  Group: Admin Posts: 460 Joined: 26-August 04 Member No.: 1 |
I believe in some power which supports me, encourages me and calms me down whenever I go mad. I have faith in that power, which helps me when i m in the worst situation, which saves me from an accident within inches... The chill runs down my spine and then assures me that I am alive and everything is fine. I call that God. Nomatter what you do, whom you follow, what you preach.. Just make sure that when you pray, you have faith. Else don't do it at all.
Besides, a week back, I read in papers that Australian or American Scientists have proved that the people who pray live longer than those who dont. |
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Jan 4 2005, 09:47 AM
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#9
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Member - Active Contributor Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 19-December 04 Member No.: 1,807 |
I think it was just nature as there was hundreds of thousands of innocent people who died and only a small number on them, if any would have done something bad.
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Jan 4 2005, 03:23 PM
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#10
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 145 Joined: 13-December 04 Member No.: 1,734 |
religion/god are hard topics to explain. it cannot be discussed easily.
but for me, believe that god exists. no body can prove god exists, but still, no body could also explain weird stuff that r happening in this world, but they do happen. like OpaQue said, god is something we hold on to... that's just my opinion, im not forcing anyone to agree with it... |
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