Logan, first I would like to say that I am responding to your post because I found it interesting not because I wish to refute everything you say. I have had so many people automatically assume this and obvious confusion results because they cannot see the validity of the refutations which I am not making.
QUOTE (Logan Deathbringer)To be a "Religious" person is not to say that you can't study, understand, and "believe" in science. To totally give up science and give in to religion totally you would become a fanatic and thus you would become a "cultist."
Being both christian and a physics teacher I cannot agree more with what you are saying here in the main, but I would like object to final sentiment. Standing in between science and religion and absorbing the confusion, trying to make sense of it, is not a comfortable place to be. There are many people, even the majority who have little reason to even try. Therefore I object to calling people fanatics or cultists (even though many of these would wear the badge proudly), because I think they are far more ordinary than these labels imply. I am often surprised at how little of what science is saying is understood by the majority of people, including those who adopt it (science) as a sort of life philosophy or religion. Because of this, I think it has become a pretty common attitude to give up on science. People buy in Kuhn's nonsense about scientific revolutions and think that the discoveries of science will eventually be overturned, and so they believe what they want to believe. As strange as it may sound, I think that Star Trek has a greater following than science these days. People find it easier to believe in a well told story. For lets face it, the stuff of todays physics has gone so far out of the realm of common sense that it is far stranger than science fiction.
QUOTE (Logan Deathbringer)Those that go to the extreme and say that creationism is true and evolution is false, or the other way around, are just unable to release their deeply ingrained religous indoctrination and afraid that everything that they have believed for years cannot be true.
Indoctrination really has very little to do with it. In our society people make their own choices about what to believe and they change their minds all the time. What you are really saying here is that you think the rejection of evolution is unreasonable and therefore anyone who does this must be crazy or deluded. You are wrong. People can and do believe in just about anything for reasons too numerous to count. Reason is not a one way street, it is more like an infinity of parallel worlds because it must begin with assumptions, postulates, or first principles.
QUOTE (Logan Deathbringer)That "primative man" used religion to explain the world around him/her that their current "science" couldn't. As an example of this, and to pull away from modern religion, look at what we now call Greek Mythology, which at the time was a religion. They had a "God" to describe/explain why different things in nature and the world around them happened, then came along people like Socrates, Plato, and other such people and they started to use deductive reasoning to explain things, and such science was born.
This is too simple a picture. Originally science, philosphy, religion, art and entertainment were all one with no divisions between, it was the expression of the pure and innocent wonder, curiosity and creativity of mankind. You think like a modern man when you separate these elements. Their stories were not only to explain like a science, but to give them meaning like a philosophy, to inspire them like a religion, to express beauty like an art, and engage their heart, humor and passion as our numberous forms of entertainment does today. So we have become more sophisticated today with all these specialize activities to excel in specialized tasks. But confusion and some siliness results when we compare these different activities based on goals of one of them. Science is in the business of explaining things rationally and of course religion cannot compete on that basis because that is not its primary function in life of the believer. When we compare these in this foolish manner and force people to choose, I think were are in danger of becoming fragments of a whole.
QUOTE (Logan Deathbringer)Now skip a few hundreds years forward and if you look at what we now take for granted as science and look at what happened when certain theories were first brought to the public their was much controversy. The whole problem here is that people have used Religon to control others, and as science threatens that control their is an attempt made to dispute the findings. Earlier civilizations made war in the name of their religion as a way to prove their religion was the true one and that their Deity/Deities was/were the real one/ones. Even today we have war in the name of Religon.
Religion has only been used as a convenient excuse for war and abuse when that seemed possible, but it has more often been simply ignored because it gets in the way. I mean get serious, where exactly was religion in the two world wars? And what about the atrocities committed by the communists in their cultural revolutions in the name of their anti-religious sentiments. Do you really think the conflict in Palestine is about religion? The muslims have always been 1000% more tolerant and sympathetic with the Jews than Christians have, until we decided that they had to give up their land for them. Ok, so what about the crusades? Religion was a convenient excuse for these barbaric conquerers of the Roman empire to continue their pilliage south, but the victims were often other christians. So people like to parrot this nonsense about religion being the cause of war, but I think it is time for people to grown up.
QUOTE (Logan Deathbringer)Some may say that it has to be either science or religion...why can't it be both. Why can't it be that the universe was created in a big bang set off by some Deity that was playing marbles with their offspring. Then as man evolved the Deity communicated with the evolving civilization in an attempt to keep them from killing themselves and to point them in the correct direction and hope that doing so will save the fledgling civilization.
Well, clearly I am saying that it really must be both, but we really don't want to turn the clock back and mix up science and religion back together again. In science we have learned that sometime apparently contradictory explaination are required for a real understanding of things (the photon is both a wave and a particle). But, on the other hand, not everyone can do it, so we need tolerance and even appreciation for people who are different.
QUOTE (Logan Deathbringer)Or you could surmise that we are just an experiment in a lab in a huge petri dish and to that scientist we are just a bunch of bacteria to be played with and experimented with. Or how about this, we are just someones dream or video game.
Or a giant living computer created by mice to compute the ultimate question?
QUOTE (Logan Deathbringer)The one thing that I find truely funny is that their are people out there that try to force science to meld with what their religion says happened.
Yes this sort of pseudo-science is rampant today. We definite want to keep religion out of science. All in all, I think we see eye to eye. We definite need to find some way of healing this adversarial gap between science and religion. We need a greater acceptance of the true complexity of human life and take a step toward becoming more than just fragments.